Egypt Approves Gaza Freedom March Passage, Viva Palestina Blunders Paperwork and Blames Egypt
By Haitham Sabbah • Dec 29th, 2009 at 23:39 • Category: Analysis, Features, Haitham's Choice, Israel, Middle East Issues, Newswire, Palestine, War
In a press conference conducted earlier this evening, the Egyptian foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit announced some threats, warnings, surprises as well as some good news. The press conference that aired on Egyptian official TV a few hours ago was boiling with Aboul Gheit's very firm and angry answers to the journalists' questions who did not spare him a topic. They asked about the peace process, Hamas, Rafah tunnels and the Iron Wall besides the questions about the Gaza Freedom March and Viva Palestina.
To my surprise, it seems that the mainstream media are so far ignoring this press conference and no one has published any of the surprises or the good news which he carried for the Gaza Freedom March and the surprise he had for Viva Palestina. Not even those directly concerned, the activists themselves. Instead, searching the mainstream media today you will only get news about Egypt's arrest of activists in Cairo, the activist hunger strike, Viva Palestina's redirection to Syria, and so on.
Therefore, to be fair with Egypt and Egyptians, I'll try to translate the important parts of the press conference.
To start with the good news, Aboul Gheit announced that the Egyptians approved a limited number of Gaza Freedom March members to pass through and reach Gaza, Palestine, in the coming few days. He said (translated from Arabic here):
##start##
. . . On the demonstrations held by activists from 42 countries and their appeal to President Mubarak to allow them to cross into Gaza Strip, Aboul Gheit said, "This issue has been on the Egyptian state agenda for several months, there is a non-governmental organisation that heads six non-governmental organisations below it with 200 other organisations, and there are groups of activists, idealists and those of different directions. We have asked them early on, so as to heed their wishes, to provide us the details of their names and passports, and to tell us to what extent they wish to go. Some did, and others decided not to respond because they reject the right of the Egyptian state to use its territory to allow or not allow. They said, "we'll impose on the people of Egypt to accept that we only have the right to impose conditions for those who want to enter our state. You can not (pointing to the journalists) get a visa for Italy or France just because you defend them, or some of you at least. So Egypt has decided that this is matter that needs to be looked at carefully, and then we identified that some of them want to reach the Egyptian Rafah to exercise unlawful acts which deal with the Egyptian construction (referring to the Iron Wall), which means demonstration against Egypt, and some tried to hold contacts in Egypt which we do not accept, and intervened in a clash with the Egyptian state, so Egypt decided not to allow either of these groups to move deep into Sinai, however, as a result of the appeal, the Egyptian state has decided as per instructions from Mr. President to consider allowing a limited number of representatives of groups that we feel are genuine groups, and stands with the Palestinian people, such as ours do with them, in order to express advocacy of the Palestinian people and will allow them to enter in the next few days."
Aboul Gheit added, "Those thousands of people trying to conspire against Egypt, all that we will do is to let them in our streets, seeking to provoke the Egyptians, but the Egyptians are wiser, especially after we saw that all these demonstrations have been limited to those foreigners who tried to invoke the Egyptian security, who had not provoked, stressing that these will be in the hospitality of this magnificent sun, until the end of their desire to stay and they leave."
. . .
##End##
That was the good news. At least partly.
As for the bad news, or should I say surprise, Aboul Gheit explained in detail the claims of Viva Palestina's block to enter Egypt as they planned and provided copies of a letter that was delivered to the Viva Palestina convoy which clearly states Egyptian approval of their entry, but through Al-Arish port, as they did before, twice. The surprising part was the dates of these letters. The first one dates back to Nov 10th, 2009 and another reminder from Dec 10th, 2009 (copies below as available from source).
I think this is a very embarrassing day for activists around the world. At least for those who follow and support both, Gaza Freedom March and Viva Palestina.
Both of them either lack coordination and transparency, or have intentions for uncalled propaganda against Egypt which all activists and Palestinians are better off without.
Gaza Freedom March seems not in control of who joins and who is not supposed to, especially since it is clear that many of them did not comply with the Egyptian request of providing the details they requested ahead of time.
Egypt, like any other country in the world, has the right to approve or deny the entry of anyone to their land. However, it allowed anyone to arrive into Cairo and welcomed them like any other visitors. At the same time, in situation like borders with Palestine and Israel, no one can blame Egypt for being extra careful in accepting or denying who will travel into Sinai and who will not.
On the other hand, Viva Palestina never mentioned anything about Egyptian pre-approval to pass through Al-Arish. At least not to the mass followers, supporters and activists, if at all we assume that the convoy organizers coordinate well enough and know well ahead what is their approved route. Instead, after they reached Aqaba they issued appeal after appeal and calls for support, even went as far as asking Turkey to help. The Turkish official who went and met with Egyptians must be embarrassed after he discovered what Viva Palestina hid and did not tell him (or anyone else) about the Egyptian letters.
I think this is a lesson for the activists to learn from. Viva Palestina and Gaza Freedom March made a mess and they involved everyone in it. It is embarrassing to act in such a way.
The only thing that must be remembered so as to forgive them this blunder is the genuine reason they are claiming to be working for, which is helping Gazans. Otherwise, Gaza Freedom March and Viva Palestina lost their credibility because of their lack of transparency and misleading messages which reach to creating propaganda against Egypt and Egyptians.
Only apologizing to Egypt in a public press conference can make one forgive these fatal mistakes which made Egypt sound as THE enemy deflecting our sight from the real enemy and the real reason behind all this atrocities that Gazans and Palestinians live in, ISRAEL.
Haitham Sabbah is an uprooted Palestinian blogger. He is the webmaster and editor of Palestine Blogs, also webmaster and co-editor of Palestine Think Tank. His personal blog is Sabbah's Blog: http://sabbah.biz/
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Hello, to me letters from Egypt in November, saying: "No, not that way but this way you must comply with the list of Impossible Conditions", and a letter dated December 10 saying, after all have purchased their tickets and committed to their itinerary: "No, not Now but Two Weeks Later".
These are in fact letters saying , "No", not "Yes".
Not too mention that the dating of a letter does not mean that the letter was delivered or received by the addressee on that same date.
I do not think it is fitting for you to berate the office of Mr. Galloway accusing him of unsavoury motives.
And the same for individuals who choose not to trust to register their intentions with the Egyptian totalitarian police state.
Perhaps their decisions were simply the wisest in view of their knowledge of all the present circumstances.
Egypt owes an apology to the world for it's totalitarian conduct towards its own citizens.
What?!? Abul Gheith's message is hardly either a victory for the GFM, who no, do not have anything to be ashamed of by "letting everyone join" in what is, in fact, a march and demonstration and a public call to join. Abul Gheith's alleged letters above also do not "expose" Viva Palestina, because there's no particular reason to believe Abul Gheith….we are talking about the same Abul Gheith who called marchers conspirators, the same one who ordered Egyptians to fire on Palestinians, the same one who has repeatedly demonstrated his subservience to the US and Israel??
The Mubarak reactionary regime is busy building a 30-meter deep wall on the border with Gaza, the regime needs no help to look bad. I am really shocked to see this kind of article on PTT.
Guys, let's not get emotional. This propaganda against Egypt is not right. Focus! Israel is the enemy, not Egypt. In fact the enemy within is much worse. We, Palestinians are making Gazans life worse. Who to blame? Again, Israel.
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Sorry, but the campaign against the Mubarak regime is essential, if we're to break the blockade. The Mubarak regime is playing a critical role in sustaining the seige of Gaza – a seige designed to in to impose a political solution on the Palestinians that has been drafted in Washington and Tel Aviv that fails to even meet the minimum of Palestinian national aspirations. The revelation that the US Army Corps of Engineer specialists are directing the installation of the underground wall – the "Wall of Shame" in Rafah .is the latest confirmation of the dispicable role of the Egyptian government has carved out a a consenting partner in the Zionist seige of Gaza — , with little regard for it's own national sovereignity or puiblic sentiment. This is not hyperbole, but tragic fact. The real question, Haitham, is why would anyone defend the behavior of a government that has a proven track record of collaboration with the Israeli apartheid regime?
I saw Aboul Gheit making these statements on Al-Jazeera yesterday evening and was so disgusted that I almost smashed my television set. My Egyptian friends are no less disgusted.
I also agree with John Davies that "the dating of a letter does not mean that the letter was delivered or received by the addressee on that same date".
Patricia, John,
I have written confirmation from Viva Palestina admin management that they got the letters and they did not accept the conditions and responded in writing at the time. so claims that they might have not got the letters is not vaild.
My question to Viva Palestina, why didn't you make these letters public then so that your supporters know what to expect, in terms of route and conditions?
Dick, I completely disagree with you. Viva Palestina convoy objective was not a campaign against Mubarak regime, but unfortunately this is how it ended to be. Galloway said that the land convoy to Gaza was symbolic because its arrival was due to coincide with the first anniversary of the war on Gaza. But he added, "which the Egyptian authorities have done all they can to thwart". So, why didn't Galloway declare this right before they started from London? They got Egyptian answer way before they reached Aqaba. Everyone should have known what Egypt approved, and what Galloway planed to do.
Yes, Egypt can do more, no doubt about that, but this turned to no more than smearing Egyptians, which have done to Gaza more than any other Arabian or Western country did.
Here is a challenge. Why don't Viva Palestina consider going by sea next time, sailing 200 boats though international waters and demanding that the Western Powers guarantee the freedom of the high seas. That way you don’t need to bow to Mubarak?!
The "Wall of shame" as you call it is a different story. tell Hamas to stop smuggling drugs (one of many reasons) in and out from Gaza then we can speak about it. Keeping in mind that if Egypt wants to cut aid to Gaza, all what they need to do is close the road that leads to Egyptian Rafah.
@John Davies: I'm Egyptian, and my government owes me no apology for its decisions regarding these convoys!
What I blame the Egyptian government for, however, is their slow response to allegations made against Egypt in the past few days.
Great coverage, Haitham! Thank you!
It's unbelievable that you're falling for this scheme, Mr. Sabbah. It sounds to me like the Egyptian authorities have hired Israel's PR spin machine to try to paint the selfless works of Viva Palestina and George Galloway in the worst possible light, while trying to make themselves out to be the pinnacle of reason and accomodation. Please. The existence Wall of Shame debunks that right off the top, and anyone with a shred of common sense and knowledge of the situation can see right through this ploy.
Kim, what did Galloway do other than uncalled for propaganda against Egypt? Is Egypt occupying my land? No, it is Israel. Are the Egyptians closing Rafah crossing by their own? No, the Palestinian Authority asked them to do that. So if Galloway want to blame anyone and not the Israeli occupation, then it is the PA and Hamas. But Galloway have his political agenda supported by Iran to smear Egypt.
I am a Palestinian and I appreciate all the help I get from supporters and friends around the world, but I don't accept that anyone to use Palestine and Palestinian to pass his political agenda over Palestinian blood and brotherhood with Arab nations (not governments).
Hi,
Haitham, The conditions mentioned in the documents are humiliating. They are sent to viva Palestinian (VP) to be rejected and this rejection will be used against VP to prevent it from entering Gaza.
There is no other way to entering Gaza other than what VP is currently doing. It is not straightforward to enter Gaza. It has never been. The list of conditions is so long and so mean. It would be easier to go from the Israeli side.
It is the Egyptians who are closing Rafah. How do you explain the fact that they open it once every 40 days or so. People are dying and students are losing their schools abroad because Egypt wants to make it hard for the Gaza to live a normal life to punish them for the election. They don't want to make it extremely hard so that to show the world that it is doing something. Same way Israel is doing by allowing some food through its crossings.
On several times, when I go to Gaza to visit my family, I spend several days in the airport waiting the border to open. We are holed up in some maintenance section of the airport in one room. Sometimes, you meet more than 20-50 people in the same room. No hot water, no food, etc. And the Egyptian guards extort you to buy food for you at a much higher price than normal.
The Gaza Freedom March and the Viva Palestinia are helping to expose the Egyptian governments. They are showing the world that Egypt is part of the blockade and they are not helping.
TO make things worse, Egypt is building the iron wall to prevent food, medicine, etc from reaching Gaza. It is a form of collective punishment. They want the Gazans to come and beg the Egyptian government to open the border and do whatever they want.
Haitham, here's the official Viva Palestina rebuttal to Egyptian accusations of bungling.
Viva Palestina rebuts Egyptian 'bungle' allegations
30th December 2009
The Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit claimed at a press conference on Tuesday (December 29) that his country was willing to assist the Viva Palestina convoy's entry into Gaza. He cited two letters sent by the Egyptian embassy in London on November 10 and December 10. What he does not say is that the conditions laid down were totally unacceptable, as convoy organiser George Galloway responded in writing at the time.
Full story here: http://www.vivapalestina.org/alerts/rebuttal_301209.htm
The business of letters and conditions is a pathetic smokescreen. The Egyptian government ( note govt. and not people ) has collaborated in the blockade of Gaza. It opens and closes the crossings at the behest of Israel. It is planning to block the tunnels which in the absence of an open border are vital to supplying Gaza. It orchestrated an attack on the first Viva Palestina convoy. It imposes ludicrous conditions on the aid convey using the pretext of security. All of this and we are supposed to remain silent on the matter. It is the Egyptian govt. which fosters divisions and hampers aid getting through to Gaza without the Israeli filter which denies 90% of supplies. The Egyptian govt. is sustained by the West and shackled by them. Of course Israel is the main enemy, but the fight against Zionism is weakened by the failure to recognise who our real friends are. What is this 'political agenda' you accuse Galloway of? What has he to gain from any of this?I am beginning to hear the same smears against him that have already been discredited over and over again in the past, the same smears levelled by the neo-con lie machine that he so ably destroyed by facing them down in their own institutions. We should focus our fire on those that stand between Palestinians and their freedom.
Haithaim writes:" Are the Egyptians closing Rafah crossing by their own? No, the Palestinian Authority asked them to do that. So if Galloway want to blame anyone and not the Israeli occupation, then it is the PA and Hamas. But Galloway have his political agenda supported by Iran to smear Egypt."
Do you really want to assert that the reason the Mubarak government has closed Rafah crossing is solely at the behest of Abbas and Palestinian Authority? And that Egyptian-Israeli security coordination – well documented – played absolutely no role? Or pressure from the US? That's a quote truly worthy of Ahmed Aboul Gheit.
Hello AbuHamza,
I fully agree with you regarding the conditions. I've said that before, and am saying it again. However, the point here is misleading the activists and supporters of the convoy and not telling them the truth about the conditions which Egypt stated. Now they are telling me that they did not accept these conditions and sent a written reply to Egypt right after they got the letter dated Nov 10th. (but they didn't share this letter like Egyptian did). My question to them, why didn't you share this back in Nov before all these supporters left their families and job to join you.
Back to the port and who close it. We all know that Hamas is not a government anymore, and Gaza is not a country by itself. Why do we ignore the fact that the PA asked Egypt to close Rafah border and blame Egypt (not to forget Israel)? Why in the world any country open its borders without any regulations? Hamas is not official regulation, and we saw evidences of this during many occasions such as pilgrimage this year and last year. They let in and out only those THEY, Hamas wants.
Let's assume the border is open, wont you have to pass through passport regulations at your country? That's the case everywhere. So, who decide if you or me can leave Gaza or not? What if I was a criminal running away from my country, how would Egyptians know? This is the responsibility of PA and national boarder police, which is NOT Hamas and which Hamas refusing to install back.
So, keeping just the above example in mind, why would Egypt open the boarders? At the end of the day they have the right to protect their citizens.
However, again, Egyptians can do more, better, no question about that. But that's not the issue here in my post. The Convoy claimed objective is to aid and help Gazans and expose ISRAEL, not Egypt. They could have changed their plan or asked their own governments to negotiate with Israel to let them in, not ask Egypt to do that on their behalf and smear them if they don't. To add insult to injury they are now asking Egypt to guarantee their safety while they are in international waters. Funny! Why don't they ask UK, US and the countries they came from to do that? Everyone of us, activist, supported their initially claimed objectives. We promoted and motivated them, but the last few days showed us that 1) either it was mismanaged and lead them to this situation so they created this campaign against Egypt to hide their mess, 2) or they intentionally had plans to reach to Aqaba and start the same campaign. Both objectives are not accepted by many supporters and activists and I'm one of them.
Last but not least, the Iron Wall. You are a Gazan, and I'm a Palestinian like you. We all know who controls the tunnels, and what they are used for. Who can dig a tunnel and who can't. What can be brought from Egyptian Rafah and what should not. And we all know that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. In fact food is just a cover to many other businesses and even worse a passage for terrorist groups such as Al-Qaedaa and their likes which Gaza are full with these days. If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason. That not to mention the drugs business. Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. definitely not to buy food for the palestinians in Gaza.
There are however, other Egyptian viewpoints about what's happening vis a vis Palestine activism in Eygpt. Here's one worth reading: "Security Stifles Palestine activism" from Almasryalyoum – Cairo.
[ http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/news/security-stifles-palestine-activism ]
Dick, they sent me that by email early today and I replied to them. So, since they have it public now, here is my reply to them.
###
Dear Alice,
Thank you for sharing this info. However, it only confirms my doubts about how the convoy was run and if the way it was run by was going to meet the claimed objectives or not. To me, it is not clear that objectives were not meet.
As you confirm, the convoy organizer rejected the Egyptian conditions and they responded in writing. First, I wonder if you can share that response to make it public as Egypt did.
Second, if the conditions were rejected, then 1) why the supporters and activist didn't know about it on time before starting the convoy, and 2) since it was clear that the Egyptian conditions were clear enough that the convoy will not meet the objective it was made for, then why did it start in the first place?
It could have been better to be transparent right from Nov 10th and ask all the supporters and activist to pressure their government to help in getting the Egyptian approval on the proposed plan, but that was not the case.
It is clear to me and many more activist now that this convoy drove thousands miles just to promote anti-Mubarak regime campaign, which is not what we hope for. yes, the Egyptian regime can do more, but let me remind you that this campaign served Israel more than it helped Gazans. Looking at all the media reports, specially those of Press TV, no word was mentioned about Israel occupation as the main reason for the Palestinian nightmare. Instead, activist and supporters are all condemning Egypt and calling it names.
Again, I think this mess was uncalled for and please convoy my message to the convoy organizers and Mr. Galloway: Next time, please consider going by sea, sailing 200 boats though international waters and demanding that the Western Powers guarantee the freedom of the high seas and reach to Gaza port. That way you don’t need to bow to Mubarak?!
###
No reply yet.
Dick, you are asking: "Do you really want to assert that the reason the Mubarak government has closed Rafah crossing is solely at the behest of Abbas and Palestinian Authority? And that Egyptian-Israeli security coordination – well documented – played absolutely no role? Or pressure from the US? That's a quote truly worthy of Ahmed Aboul Gheit."
Great! we are getting there. That's what I'm saying. put the blame and the pressure on US, Western Power and the occupation, Israel. Then they will allow PA to run Rafah border, which in turn will make Egyptians opens it.
Guys, look at the maistream media. Since the start of the convoy more than 20 days ago until last night, no one mentioned it. all of a sudden today it is everywhere.
NYT: Protesters Gather in Cairo for March to Gaza
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/world/middleeast/30egypt.html
LA Times: EGYPT: Activists barred from Gaza 'freedom march'
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/12/egypt-activists-barred-from-showing-solidarity-with-gaza.html
And a lot more.
What is common between them? EGYPT!
So, did the Israeli occupation end and now replaced with Egypt?
points:
1) No one supports any – I repeat ANY caging of Palestinians nor restrictions on their freedom of movement. We all support a TOTAL lift of the siege and we will fight any and all who are responsible for maintaining this.
2) It is clear that PA approves the Rafah closing. Israel wants to shift the control of the bad, bad, bad Gazans to their agents in Palestine Authority who will do the work for them, so yes, the PA has to be held accountable for this.
3) in the anniversary of the war, what has been the argument? DIVISION of the Arabs, brother against brother and the bad party is not Israel, who are only mentioned in passing and are looking on, perhaps, gleefully. And I don't mean at this commentary, but at the fact that the activists are discussing actions to hurt Egypt and spending energy in rage against Egypt. There is a lot to be enraged about, but why not have kept this campaign WORLD against Israel? Was it necessary to further divide an already fragmented Arabhood?
4) We heard that Galloway did not like the conditions. Until we see something in writing, we will assume NO conditions were changed once they arrived and that Galloway agreed to bargain with Egypt.This is wrong.
5) What does one go to break a siege for and then bargain? There were other ways to do it and were these not attempted? As suggested by Haitham, BY SEA. Why was this not done?
6) There is a genuine lack of transparency economically and this has been reflected in only now activists knowing that the plan to enter via South was actually the condition ( and to take conditions is to agree to accept them, so either they took them or they rejected them BUT SHOULD HAVE MADE THIS CLEAR).
7) No one doubts the good faith of the activists.
8 ) No one is calling activists hooligans.
9) If the road is open, there is no more need for tunnels, and I can't go into an argument I know nothing in detail on. Haitham lives with Arab radio and TV so he knows more than I do and I don't believe the drug traffic between Egypt and Israel he mentions is a lie, however, I have no way of knowing.
10) Letting Israel fall out of the spotlight of shame was a terrible thing to have happen.
I am sure others who know more shall contribute their thoughts, but please DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER and HOLD ORGANISERS RESPONSIBLE for all their actions.
"Then they will allow PA to run Rafah border, which in turn will make Egyptians opens it."
I see, Haitham. So you want the saintly PA and their Yankee-trained security forces to return to Gaza (no doubt with Dahlan in charge).
Dick, that is what Ms. Howard sent us, and where is it in writing that the conditions were rejected?
Claiming he wrote it and him actually writing it are different.
I honestly hope that they are able to provide these documents, because no one wants to condemn efforts made to bring attention to the Gazan situation, the opposite is true! But when they turn into a different campaign and there is no transparency, they endanger ALL FURTHER actions and undermine good faith. Most of all, do they help Palestinians? This alone is the criteria that should be followed. Israel is not being forced to change will Egypt now, if the people actually AGREED to attend to conditions and then change them? This is not a good way to act.
Patricia Deane,
No I don't want them to return, but they will return regardless if I want or not. When I sit in the white house I will make sure to end the occupation and bring freely elected government to Palestine. Meanwhile, if the only way to ease the situation in Gaza is to put hand with corrupted PA, I don't mind.
Hamas leaders are not living in tents and their kids don't miss a meal!
The conditions were sent to the VP so as to be rejected. That's the trap that the Egyptian government wanted VP to fall into. Thanks God VP didn't agree.
Second, children in Gaza are being punished for some decision that their parents make regrading the political situations. The problem with Abbas is that he can't get a clean government. The corruption was rampant in Abbas government. So, the choice was a choice for a change nothing more.
My mother died two months ago for lack of proper medical treatment. Hundreds have died due to lack of medicine and advance medical treatment abroad which they didn't get to because of the blockage.
Ten of thousands students can't pursue their education abroad because of the blockade. The treatment that the Gazans get in their travel through Egypt is indescribable. Egypt can do much to fix these issues. They decide not to do so for some reasons.
Haitham, you argument regarding the passports issue doesn't stand the test of reality. Every month or so Egypt does open the border and they manage somehow to stamp the passport. Why don't they open it more often, say every week. The reason is simple, they want to punish the people of Gaza, children and elderly citizen alike. There should be some sort of pressure on Egypt to expose their role. I hope that by time, they will change their stance and open the border more often.
It is important to always remember that the siege on Gaza is imposed by the Zionists and supported by the US ,EU ,Egypt and most of the regimes chocking the Arab World and masses .To break the siege ,people should know that they will be going head on against all these forces.
It’s also important to notice that at least here in the US, that the only advantage Arab people who are American citizens enjoy is having a passport that will let them in many countries without any problems to speak for .But they are not treated or taken serious as “White American” which I like to call Gringos .They are definitely treated like the local Arabs once they are in an Arab Country when it comes to having political power. I suspect that the same goes for other Arabs who now hold European citizenship.
I am saying this, because for a Gringo, or a European, who believes in the issue of breaking the siege, making such pathetic deals with the Mubarak Government or any other government will not be acceptable. It’s however, acceptable to a various degree by the Arab participants. There’s as you may know many reasons for this, not the least of it is their love to the people who live under siege.
Breaking the siege means breaking the siege and nothing else .It does not mean accepting an offer from Mubarak to allow only a100 people out of thousands who left their livelihood for weeks so they can impark on this venture ,like what is happening now ,and it also does not mean giving only 24 hours for the people who went on Viva Palestina US ,to go into Gaza ,under the cover of the night ,as if they are thieves.
My experience with the Viva Palestina US tells me without any shadow of a doubt that the leadership of these venture are very well aware of this, and that they will promise you the moon to make you support them carry on with the effort while they know for a fact that they will be making deals with siege maker(s), these deals that will not satisfy any meaning of break the siege under no circumstance.
Just think about this and go back to the short history of these ventures and you will know its true. People who want to break the siege did not make any deal with anyone and examples are there for all to verify.
AbuHamzah,
I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My condolences.
I don't like to repeat myself again and again. I agree, Egypt can do more and better, but they are not responsible for what we are in now, but the occupation and our PA and Hamas.
As for the passport thing, well, we should be thankful for egypt then that they take this risk. However, we all know that they allow only those who they want to enter, not anyone who wishes to.
Aboul Gheit is live on air interview now (Official Egyptian TV). Let's see if he have more surprises.
There is a huge mistake at the centre of all this and that is the division of Palestinians. Let it be clear that PTT, Haitham and all the contributors to this site support the cause of Palestinian liberation from the Zionists by whatever means necessary. There are bound to be mistakes, also diversities of what it takes to do it, but let there be NO mistake as to the sole, single and unshakeable idea we hold:
There will always be a Palestine, and it is from the River to the Sea, and it is under Jewish Israeli military occupation and this has been supported wrongly and indecently by many many players, including those who certainly should never have allowed Arabhood to be in discussion and should never have abandoned this cause for their own personal reasons.
We also reject division of Palestinians according to 48, 67, "Israeli Palestinians/Arab Israelis", and diaspora Palestinians. There is ONE Palestinian people, and all of them have been raped, robbed, imprisoned and they will obtain justice if there is justice in this world. They shall not be pitted one against the other by factionalism, nor shall they be separated from the Arabhood that they are part of. They deserve nothing less than total support and that means at the sacrifice of any other interests that anyone shall have if they are determined to support their cause.
That said, there are bound to be differences in opinion, view and sentiments. It is clear that the realities are complex and varied, it is clear that those who are bearing the brunt of zionist oppression are the brothers and sisters of Gaza and those under occupation in the rest of Palestine, and their steadfastness shall be honoured and we must be AT THEIR SERVICE.
I don't share Haitham's views on the Hamas, but that's ok. It is hard to judge what they may have been able to do, but they were not allowed to do so, and thus, comparing them to the PA seems unfair.
I believe the PA is corrupt, administrates the Israeli occupation, and should be immediately called by its people to respond to the work it does for the Israelis and the Americans. They should be held accountable by their people, and in my mind, this is intifada as well that should be applied to them.
Lastly, Egypt is not free of responsibility, but they are clearly diverting all attention from the true occupiers, and this is indeed a luxury none of us can afford.
As usual, and it does not surprise me (read Protocols), the Israelis, with the help of their henchmen (this time from Egypt), is making it so that we, who work for Peace and Justice for Palestinians, are arguing with one another. It works every time guys. Every single time!
Check out Galloway's interview on http://www.Democracynow.org December 29, in which he states the impossiblilty of the conditions placed by Egypt on Viva Palestina.
Justice for Palestine out of Houston, Texas has been trying to put in the Houston Chronicle an opinion piece. One particular phrase that a fellow Palestinian suggested we take out was "…aided and abeted by Egypt." He said Egyptians might be offended and we acquiesed. BUT PEOPLE, HEAR ME OUT: IT IS NOT ABOUT the good Egyptian people who are sympathetic and regretful for what is happening to their fellow brothers and sisters in Palestine, Gaza. While there, they were kind and generous and beautiful to me (March, 2009). It is about the government that stinks to HIGH Heaven, Just like the U.S. government right now.
Do not knock Galloway or any of the protesters please. Let me tell you that their being there is a sacrifice to them. Although they would gladly do it again for the endangered Palestinians in the Occupied territories.
The conditions Egypt tried to place upon the protesters is cunning, calculating and cruel. Have we not learned that we are part of a major human family—undivided by borders and names of territories. Let us keep looking at the bigger picture please, and not fall for the never ending web of intrigue of the Zionists not only in Israel, but also in Egypt, the U.S. and wherever else they are.
Julie
Julie, totally in agreement that the fomenting of divisions is what Israelis/Jews have been driving at and love. I also believe that if we are "fighting" amongst ourselves, it is because we don't want Palestinians to be taken advantage of or fooled by good intentions, etc.
I can only say that I just got 3 calls for me to come and demonstrate in front of the Egyptian Embassy in Rome. I don't know if I can remember one arranged in front of the Israeli one, and I am not kidding.
If you, tomorrow night see a film on your news, but don't read the posters in Italian, you will see men and women in Keffiyahs chanting slogans and you won't know what for. (not specifically YOU, but the general public) and then that has set an image, the occupation is from Egypt, or Egypt is doing something bad… I know this is simplifying matters, but try to understand that the consumer of news is not fully informed. The Scots PSC revealed that in a survey, most of those interviewed believed that Israel was being occupied by Arabs!
This alone does nothing, NOTHING for the cause of Arabhood, which we believe in. Wedging things into factions, good ones, democratic ones, bad ones, etc… does NO good in the world we live in. There is ONE enemy to fight and Yousef said who it is: Zionism/Imperialism/Israel with the help of Arab regimes choking the masses.
I can't speak personally on Galloway, but would like to see the rejection of the conditions in print.
Again, no one ever asked permission so that their oppressors will liberate them. They go and do it. There have been breaks to sieges the world over, and even Free Gaza achieved much without bending on their knees.
But then again, I am unsophisticated. If it were for me, every Palestinian and their supporters would go to the wall, hammer in one hand and the Hague ruling in the other, and knock the damned wall down this instant. They have a right to it, and if all of them did it not Abbas, or the IDF or anyone can stop them.
but that it easy to say from Italy, I know.
No one doubts the good intentions and sense of sacrifice of the volunteers. But, those imprisoned in Gaza are Palestinians, and Palestinians are those we are serving.
Others here have direct experience with Galloway. I do not, but they have not yet responded to our requests to simply show us the letter they claim that was written. I can't imagine at this point that it is important to keep it private, as the VP movement is public and many of us have spent time and energy to support it and sustain it. PTT has backed and promoted it as well, without being asked to, just as we support all sincere efforts towards the liberation of Palestine.
I agree with Haitham. Egypt is not the enemy, I totally agree with Haitham, "the enemy within is much worse"
After reading Haitham's post and his defense, I would say, I would say, if I am in his shoes, I would send my criticism through the proper channels, which I believe he has
Instead of saluting the International freedom fighters, he, "the webmaster and editor of Palestine Blogs, and the webmaster and co-editor of Palestine Think Tank.", turned to be a mouth piece for Pharaoh's regime, spreading Abu Alghaith Propaganda, which is more or less a Zionist Propaganda.
Egypt is not the enemy, I mocked Tony of Mollistine for calling Hamas to launch a guerrilla war on the Wall (knocked down, before Cast Lead operation), for calling Hamas to Make changing Cairo regime its priority, for mocking Hamas for going to Cairo and insisting on Palestinian reconciliation,
Hamas never dealt with Egypt or any Arab country as an enemy. It's Pharaoh's regime who wrongly dealt with Hamas as an enemy threatening its national security, conspired and cheated Hamas prior to Cast Lead operation. In constructing the wall of shame and death Pharaoh dropped the fig leave covering his treason.
And here "the webmaster and editor of Palestine Blogs," is Refusing calling the Iron wall, a WALL OF SHAM, justifying tightening the siege on Gaza, "to stop smuggling drugs (one of many reasons) in and out from Gaza" and claiming that Rafah crossing is not closed, or closed for technical reasons.
"Why in the world any country open its borders without any regulations?" The Uprooted activist asked??? Egypt "have the right to protect their citizens" he answered
Haitham knows "that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. In fact food is just a cover to many other businesses and even worse a passage for terrorist groups such as Al-Qaedaa and their likes which Gaza are full with these days. If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason. That not to mention the drugs business. Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. Definitely not to buy food for the Palestinians in Gaza"
It's the same kind of propaganda used against Hezbollah.
Controlling Rafah border is "the responsibility of PA and national boarder police, which is NOT Hamas and which Hamas refusing to install back." Is Haitham calling for the return of Dhalan??
If Galloway wants to blame anyone and not the Israeli occupation, then it is the PA and Hamas.
Galloway's real agenda supported by Iran is to smear Egypt. As a "Palestinian" he "don't accept that anyone to use Palestine and Palestinian to pass his political agenda over Palestinian blood and brotherhood with Arab nations (not governments).
Don't blame Pharaoh, "put the blame and the pressure on US, Western Power and the occupation, Israel. Then they will allow PA (Dahlan) to run Rafah border, which in turn will make Egyptians opens it."
Today I posted my translation for Ibrahim Al-amin article in Lebanese Alakhbar revealing how Hamas taken by surprise made its first priority hunting the fifth pillars and preventing Dayton's army massed at Arish from entering the strip. They followed Haitham's the only true statement Haitham said. "the enemy within is much worse"
Finally, Haitham's post and comments shocked me, and raised big question on his real agenda.
UP, what's Haitham's "real agenda"?
I know what it is: to liberate Palestine and be liberated himself as a Palestinian.
You, being Palestinian must understand what that means. That the lack of unity of Palestinians has NEVER helped them and this means to stop fighting on the one side Fatah and on the other side Hamas but to all together FIGHT THE ZIONISTS. To get every zionist out of their land and to get every Palestinian who will sell them to Zionists out of office.
He did indeed show his support of the International Freedom Fighters, please read carefully. He does NOT want them to be USED to promote anything but what they are supposed to do; in this case, bring awareness of the siege and of the occupation of Gaza.
They certainly should and MUST complain to Egypt and about what Egyptian regime is doing, but if this becomes the entire campaign, I personally, as an activist, would have asked where did Israel fit in all of this? Did the purpose of the campaign shift?
Does that question not cross through your mind?
WHY did Galloway's group even go if they knew they would not be able to set the conditions themselves? Unless making that the central story was it? I don't know, but when we get answers, we will be glad about it, and so should you.
anyone who does not show accountability for their actions is doing wrong. Moreso if they do it using your people.
Many know things that they are not saying, so what can I say other than the truth will come out sooner or later.
No one, Haitham included, calls for the return of Dahlan! It is easy to insert insinuations.
The PA does NOT want Hamas to have full authority, and so, there are deals being made in ways none of us know all about. Of this you can be sure. But, who is supposed to control the border? Who do you recommend to do it? Not a rhetorical question, but think of what you want to answer.
Haitham did NOT defend the iron wall, he said why EGYPT would decide to make it, that is how i read it. He is not the creature you are attempting to depict him as, and what precisely good does it do to attack him in this way?
I personally don't believe in the Al Qaeda stuff, if they even exist, but I don't hear the Arab radio, I don't know what anyone there is saying if it's not in English, and I can assure you, there is every kind of propaganda and information one may want. There are many factions that are divided. All of this exists and it is wrong. I can guess that things are never quite as they seem. I can also guess that the Wall would never need to exist of Egypt would open the crossings. Why don't they do it? I still believe it has to do with the Israel/US/Arab Powers factions and for once, it would be important to really fight all who are in these powers instead of ONE ANOTHER.
Thank you, Uprooted Palestinian!
I will not go to this level of "discussion". My history and work all over the blogsphere for the last ten years (before blogging was invented) carries enough answers to your accusations.
This post is an attack on the Gaza Freedom Marchers and Viva Palestina, echoing the Mubarak reactionary regime. I don't know why it is such, or the motivation for such, and it may be the best-intended thing in the world – but that's what it IS. So people responding are defending themselves against an attack.
abul gheith et al have made clear where they stand – not just in the past week, but over years. The Mubarak regime stands with the US and Israel, against the interests of the Egyptian and Palestinian people.
Defending Egypt by attacking Viva Palestina is a bad idea. The main beneficiary can only be Israel. The people who volunteered to join this convoy did so out of a sincere belief that its cause was noble. Now that its leadership has been attacked like this, how many will be likely to sign up for the next one? Those who wish to defend Egypt are certainly free to do so, but it should be remembered that the Egyptian government's public relations problem was largely self-created. As for quibbling over whether the aid should have been delivered by land or sea, it's largely what we call "Monday morning quarterbacking" here in the U.S. I don't know–I'm only guessing here–but probably Viva Palestina made the decision to go by land in light of Israel's attack against the Free Gaza ship a year or so ago.
who is defending Egypt? I have read the exchange and have not found that Haitham is defending Egypt or the PA . Actually he called them the corrupt PA . So what is this all about ?
And why are people surprised that someone like Galloway is in this for a reason other than breaking the siege ? His actions in the three Viva Palestina efforts all proves that he did make at least one deal with the Egyptians in every effort in complete disregard to the letter and spirit of the mission .
People ,and I can name many Palestinian national leaders benefited from the suffering of our people many times and many are still are .So why someone like Galloway is beyond this ?
Why are you afraid of facing the loud and clear facts that is coming from people who dealt with these types first hand ? I believe that knowing the facts will help our people and their true supporters weed out the bad apples .Anyone who attacks Dr. Mona El Farra in front of the Viva Palestina US participants and brought her to tears because she suggested that some of the money be used to buy an essential medical equipment for the Shiffa Hospital instead of buying brand new Toyota sedans totaling $500,000.00 does not respect our struggle ,our people under siege and their suffering and does not have the best interest for us .Why people are surprised is beyond me.
It looks to me, perhaps it just looks that way, like folks are reading that this is an attack on VP or GFM. It is NOT! this site has supported, defended, promoted the march in entire, utter, complete good faith.
AS well, there is NO support of the Egyptian regime NOR of its oppression by closing the crossing, restrictions, and now the wall. If you see that, then perhaps you might want to read it again. Part of a translation is to translate what the speaker says and attempt to interpret his thoughts.
It is considered as beyond doubt that the marchers are in good faith. It is beyond doubt that they also did not know all the details of the trip if it later turns out that the "compromise route" was the established route. It could only have ended in a fight if one comes prepared to not stay to the agreed upon conditions. If the org DID NOT agree to them, they should respond to the letters and state that clearly in a way to substantiate it with a copy of a letter or a fax. I believe that this would be part of the record of the mission, and not something that should escape accountability since there were persons whose safety was in their responsibility, as well as the success of a mission that should have shone a glaring light against Israel and brought needed relief to Palestinians, as well as kept Palestinians and Gazans in particular, in the limelight as it is a moment of commemoration of the war they suffered so greatly from. We had one day of focus on the war, and after that, it dropped off the radar in the activist world. All that we heard was about how bad Egypt is.
I don't believe this is good strategy. One has a right to express this in a free world and not be then accused of supporting intolerant and cruel regimes. To seek to do this to those who seek that all actions that will have ramifications (lasting ones) in the zone, shall not be organised in such a way as to jeopardise the mission or the situation of those who are being the object of the intervention. To have more disputes and to shift the focus was not good.
If one wishes to interpret this call for clarity and transparency as negative, they are free to do so, and thus they should not expect clarity and transparency in anything. It's all ok,
I confess I find myself astounded, confounded and disgusted by Haitham's defense of Egypt in its responses to both the Gaza Freedom March and Viva Palestina. Had the Egyptian government not demonstrated for some years that is a tool both of the US and Israel (with the former being the tool of the latter), he might have had a leg to stand on. But he doesn't.
Egypt, not Israel, has to bear FULL responsibility for keeping its border with Gaza sealed. The police state of Egypt is simply an accessory to Israel's crimes out of fear of loss of aid at the hands of the US Congress which is constantly threatening to cut Egypt's billion plus annual funding.
While there may have been organizational problems with Viva Palestina, if Egypt was not a lickspittle for the US and Israel they would have let the convoy pass through, and while the Gaza Freedom March also had its problems, not surprising, given the size and nature of the march, again Egypt should have not cracked down on it the way it has and should have let the marchers and the aid into Gaza without hesitation. In fact, had Egypt not long ago betrayed the Palestinian struggle, neither Viva Palestina or the Gaza Freedom March would have been necessary.
Hey guys, let's keep the eye on the prize here and not pull an 'israeli apologist' tactic. Of course, Egypt is dead wrong in what it's doing, but it's manhandling the marches because Israel… and the US… is telling it to. But please don't forget that the occupation is Israeli, the war crimes are Israeli, the slow-drip genocide against the Palestinians is Israeli, the use of phosphorus bombs against a civilian population is Israeli.
Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, B'tselem and the Goldstone Report SQUARELY blame Israel. For any of us who are interviewed or have an opinion, let's not forget who the "Wizard of Horrors" is. It's Israel funded by the U.S. American media is finally paying attention today maybe because it's Israel, but they are also showing photos of Gaza last year and they are including some information about Cast Lead. We ARE winning the PR battle. Let's hope it's not too late for the Palestinians. Greta Berlin, Free gaza movement
Agree 100% with Greta. Egypt is dead wrong in what it is doing, it has many sins to account for and it must be absolutely made to open its gates fully, allow passage of goods and people, stand up to Israel and it does none of these things for the reasons Jeff states, that it gets money out of doing it, and this is all that matters to them, besides keeping all the opposition silenced. YET, and this is the point:
It is ISRAEL that is responsible for all of this and blame should never be shifted from them regarding the siege. It is the Israeli existence as a Jewish state and the entire world mechanism surrounding that which is responsible and is occupying Arab land and oppressing Arab people in Palestine, Syria and Lebanon.
I have been participating in the activist coverage and diffusion of this since the beginning (and so has Haitham) and it is clear that in the activist world, the day of the anniversary of Israel's attack on Gaza, there was attention given to remembering the atrocities and lifting the deadly siege. After that, SILENCE about Israel's crimes, and all attention was shifted to Egypt.
all of it. I repeat ALL OF IT! People who were and are 100% for the Palestinian people ignored that the world should be hearing day and night that this was the anniversary of one of the most recent atrocities and Israel got off the hook were no longer even mentioning Israel.
I am sure those who navigate have been aware of it, and even on this site, we asked everyone to immediately call their representatives to pressure Egypt into opening the gates immediately and permanently. After that, we asked them to lift all restrictions on the marchers and to allow them entry, and we added that if they purused the policy of maintaining Israel's occupation of Palestine, including the construction of the wall, we would consider boycott actions against them. Against Egypt, as we had been doing thus far, promoting boycott against Israel (and I personally would add we ought to boycott the US and EU as well, as they finance and maintain the occupation and oppression). So, it is CLEAR THAT WE DO NOT ACCEPT EGYPT'S MISDEEDS and we are going on record saying so, leaving our data at the embassies and so forth, NOT ANONYMOUSLY and withoug fear.
So, I personally reject any and all insinuations that this site or those involved in it are sustaining and condoning the Egyptian regime.
We presented the info on the Hunger strikers and again, we called the Embassies and we asked all our contacts to do the same.
No one is letting off the hook or doing the dirty work of Egypt.
more in a moment on the march.
On the mistakes, etc. of the movements:
we are constantly making mistakes, as we are human. However, any and all leaders of movements have a unique responsibility that does not fall upon those who follow them, including participants and supporters, and that is to being transparent and acting exclusively in the interests of the cause. They are not allowed, as leaders, to abandon the cause and to endanger the lives, reputations and principles of those they have asked to join them.
Thus, the questioning is indeed relevant and valid if we are aware that the cause accepted conditions, for the exchange of being able to enter into Gaza and to bring relief and then work to opening the gates and lifting the siege through the pressure and attention this would bring.
If they did not accept the conditions, they should have publicly stated so from the very start.
We have asked for this, and if anyone who is a member of the movement, as the leaders are perhaps too busy to respond to other activists, if anyone has any document that expresses that the VP said they will not make compromises, that they will not accept conditions and that they will go the route that they planned notwithstanding the conditions (wrong as they may be) imposed upon them, please, come forward with this. Please mail it to us, (leaving a note here that you have done so, as the mailbox may lose it, that you have sent us a copy, which we will duly publish). In that way, all activists can consider that there was transparency with those involved, which was the complaint.
Again, there are those who have experience and are waiting for answers. they have bravely come forward. They have no interest in the world in doing anything to undermine their people and cause. Everytime an outsider does it, lets them down and abandons them, they have the right and the duty to be angry and to expect that any possible wrongdoing, or even mistakes, are accounted for and that any monies raised are totally sent to the purpose for which they were raised.
Haitham
"My history and work all over the blogsphere for the last ten years (before blogging was invented) carries enough answers to your accusations."
With full apreciation to your history, I am comenting on your post and your comments. We say in arabic Ija yekahilha amaha, and we say "Ghaltit Alshtir be Alf" The mistake of the smart equivalant to one thosand mistake.
We have to learn the Virtue of admitting our mistakes instead of storming our minds to justify them.
Happy new Year.
Some people read only what they want to read and ignore the rest. Reminds me of the famous sarcasm in the Arab world who quote a Quran verse which says, "should not come to prayer" (as an excuse for not praying) and ignore the part that follows, "one who is drunk ".
First, no one is defending Egypt. I don't defend the Egyptian regime nor have sympathy with what they do. It's never happened and any actions against Palestinians by anyone are always going to be denounced and exposed.
Second, I'm not attacking Galloway. However, until this moment he is acting in a way that would not withstand transparency. It may not be the appropriate time to ask why things are the way they are or to question him. I have asked his representatives, who quickly responded to the doubt about the letters in their forum, but without any disclosure of his letters, if there were any, sent to Egypt about conditions. So far, still no answers, but I am willing to be patient, as now it is important to get the aid into Palestine and it's important to have all the activists and Palestinians in safety.
Yousef asked a question, and perhaps given how serious all of this is, all of these questions need answering. We are anxious to hear the other side of the story and expect that this is what should happen, with no prejudice. We are only interested in the Palestinian people, and we are not interested in anything done that divides them more than they are already divided or uses them. I also don't appreciate that the shift of the primary enemy is Egypt. Its regime is an enemy, but Israel is occupying all of Palestine, until further notice.
Last but not least, lifting the siege from all sides must happen immediately and without conditions.
Haitham, I was not attempting to shift blame from Israel but to express my bewilderment at reading this sentence in your commentary:
"Only apologizing to Egypt in a public press conference can make one forgive these fatal mistakes which made Egypt sound as THE enemy deflecting our sight from the real enemy and the real reason behind all this atrocities that Gazans and Palestinians live in, ISRAEL."
While Egypt may not be THE enemy, the Mubarak government certainly has proved to be AN enemy of the Palestinian people. It's closure of its border with Gaza has been ABSOLUTELY critical to Israel maintaining its siege. Thus, the notion, that you seem to be suggesting, that leaders of the Gaza March should hold a press conference apologizing to the Egyptian government, is unconscionable.
If Egypt's refusal to allow the marchers into Gaza is getting publicity and you find that troubling, I assure you that if the marchers had been allowed to pass into Gaza without restrictions, there would have been no coverage at all of the event in the Zionized US media.
Quite apart from the present events and prior to the Gaza war, for reasons I can guess but not accept, Egypt has largely been given a pass by the solidarity movement when, if it had been publicly and consistently linked with Israel we might have seen some beneficial effects within Egyptian society. If you believe the providing of what has been essentially a free pass for Egypt these past years has been effective, I would appreciate seeing some evidence of that.
I am not at all confused by the statement by haitham that it had been PA who asked Egypt to build a wall along gazan border with egypt.
It is clear to me that the utterance "devil, hamas, US, nato lands, israel made me do it" does not represent reality.
Had egypt been democratic, or at least as democratic as sweden, finland even idea of building a wall against lapps wld have been descried by at least 80% of their democratic pop.
And, so saying, US/UK/russia made us do it, wld have not arisen. Can one wash own crimes against humans by saying "We had to do it because…….; and now name any rationalization u care to posit?
No, rationalizations shld never be used to justify own wrong doing; only causation may or may not be used to do that.
One causative factor for egypt to do crimes against pal'ns might be that US/nato/isr had amassed, tanks, artillery, soldiers, helis, fighter jets, warships around egypt and issuing a declaration of war against egypt if egypt wld not acceed to their demands egypt do as ordered or expected of her to do.
No, i am not happy with haitham's condemnations, conclusions, and guess work. OK, we are not now in wishing or washing town washing crimes; i have no appetite for that. tnx
Haitham,
I entered this conversation soemtime after you had initiated it and have just gone back to see if what others had criticized you for writing you had actually said and it turns out that they were correct: For example, you wrote:
"…Why do we ignore the fact that the PA asked Egypt to close Rafah border and blame Egypt (not to forget Israel)? Why in the world any country open its borders without any regulations? …"
I find all of those statements of your mind boggling.First, do you really think that Egypt would close the Rafah border because the PA asked them to? If you do, you are totally out of touch with reality. If the PA hardly has any credibility or power within the West Bank, do you really think that Mubarak would listen to anything that Abbas would have to say?
You go on:
"Let's assume the border is open, wont you have to pass through passport regulations at your country? That's the case everywhere. So, who decide if you or me can leave Gaza or not? What if I was a criminal running away from my country, how would Egyptians know? This is the responsibility of PA and national boarder police, which is NOT Hamas and which Hamas refusing to install back."
You write about the responsibility of the PA and the border police to monitor the borders. That you can do so when the PA forces do absolutely nothing to prevent the Israeli occupation forces from entering Palestinian towns and villages and assassinating or arresting whatever Palestinians they choose, do nothing to guard the non-violent demonstrators against the wall, but who were there to suppress demonstrations by West Bank Palestinians in support of their brothers and sisters in Gaza during Cast Lead, is equally unbelievable, but that, sadly, is not the end of it.
You write:
"So, keeping just the above example in mind, why would Egypt open the boarders? At the end of the day they have the right to protect their citizens…"
Do you believe that the dictator Mubarak gives a damn about protecting Egypt's citizens?. Are you serious?
And then, finally, after making a series of assumptions about the tunnels, you write, "If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason." It seems to me, after reading this several times, that you are justifying the building of the wall and blocking the tunnels. I am sure the Gazans will appreciate that sign of your support for them.
Haitham, your undisguised hatred of Hamas has obviously clouded your thinking. A first time PTT reader might be forgiven for thinking your words were written by the Jerusalem Post's Khalid Abu Toameh.
We do not know that also nato lands, israel, US, and not only PA had 'asked' egypt close the boarder btwn palestine and egypt.
Anyone of these warsellers or all of them together may have 'asked' or demanded egypt close the boarder. The fact is, we don't know. And since we don't know, we cannot then conclude anything from it.
But if it is a fact that egypt wants to or is actually building a wall, it is solely responsible for that wrongdoing. It is a collective punishment against people who are not at odds with egypt.
Even if palestinians are bringing arms over the boarder, egypt has no legal nor moral right to prevent palestinians from defendinig selves from war criminals and occupiers.
Pal'ns are actually morally and legally obligated to do everything they can to oust the occupiers. I do not recommend pal'ns resist militarily, nato, US, and israel; only because israel/nato/US welcomes it, knowing that any resistance by pal'ns achieves nothing for them.
PA behaves differently than hamas. But no one knows why. Perforce we must take a guess. I have a few times in the past. But whether we know why PA acts as it does, it still wld amount to a handful of beans, because the warlords from US probably will decide the fate of expalestine.
The darkies of israel with the mosheic cult are as much used as the other darkies by white 'jews' and white people.
I don't think US loves or respects these impoverished people, living in one the more or most wretched pieces of land.
It is devoid of water, mines, minerals, forests, lakes; only a fanatic mosheist wld want to live in such a harsh and poor region.
During roman times there lived only ab 400k canaanites; which included arabs [nabateans, arameans], yehudim, hivvites, hittites, jebusites, philistines, amonites, amorites, israelites, et al.
But even if this is inaccurate, euro-asians have no right to be in palestine because they have no connection to ancient hebrews. tnx
Possibly all of these small tribes becoming one big happy tribe at ca 4.4k-3k yrs. tnx
Haitham writes:
"I think this is a lesson for the activists to learn from. Viva Palestina and Gaza Freedom March made a mess and they involved everyone in it. It is embarrassing to act in such a way."
This seems overly harsh and critical. I'm not suggesting the leadership of either group should be regarded as above criticism. Constructive criticism is a good thing in any movement. But there's a proper time and place for it. Leveling such criticism now, at a time when people are on hunger strike to try and open the border, seems extraordinarily bad timing.
Don't get me wrong, I think Palestine Think Tank is a very good web site, extremely useful and informative. I take my hat off to Haitham, Mary, and others who contribute to it. I just think this one article has missed the mark.
It looks as if everyone has some part of this brouhaha to be accountable for.
Why didn't the Movements' Organizers inform their people that Egypt had authorized entry through an alternative port, however impractical they might have considered this "other" port of entry?
It was Egypt's response, it was a fact, it was germane, and it was news! It should have become part of the discussion and argument if they had wanted to keep people informed, which is a responsibility they assume when they recruit people for a march such as this and solicit funds to carry it through.
Yes, Egypt is a pawn. We've long known that, and Israel and the US are the villains, Haitham and Greta are both correct in that everyone should keep that in focus.
The Egyptian turnabout, or moderate relaxation of their falsely accused "stonewalled" stance, (and keep in mind that this discussion is not about granting access which was granted, but only about granting access through the Aqaba route and not through that "other" Port of Entry which Egypt approved but Galloway and the movements organizers kept quiet about) allowing a small number of people in is perhaps a consequence of an attack of conscience, or perhaps a consequence of pressures brought to bear and the mass of "bad publicity" they have received in the past few days.
It appears according to The News this morning that one of the French marchers who was injured in the attack by the Egyptian police has died. This is heavy duty bad news for Egypt.
Regardless, in my book, the Convoy started out as a token, the message and the image more important than the goods which they carried.
Therefore, it should have been An All or Nothing effort and, if all cannot get in then none of them should go and leave the others behind.
This concept opens up other considerations, which I suspect no one has considered, at least no one has discussed it openly.
Permission for a token number of the token marchers to enter (with or without the goods?) would do no one any good other than Egypt.
If you can wrap your brain around the Israeli assessment of 9-11 being "Good for Israel": then perhaps you can wrap your brain around the concept that Egypt, by stopping the convoy entirely, was doing more harm to Israel than allowing them through would have done good for the Movement and for Gaza.
Allowing only a hundred or so through undoes this "good" and neutralized any benefit anyone would gain from either extreme, all or nothing! No one gains.
We must keep in mind that the delivery of the goods and equipment was a mere token to begin with, and effectively meaningless in practical "reconstruction" terms other than symbolic. But, by denying this token, Israel is committing a more egregious crime against humanity than the Movement's successes would have redressed had it been able to get it all through.
Capisco?
We win by losing! Or, at least we come out further ahead. The Israeli loss is so much greater by this denial than would have been our victory had they acceded.
The Movements should stand fast and refuse to accept anything but all or nothing, period.
Happy New Year All! Lets work together in 2010 to bring more of us together.
Activists, Professors, Writers, Editors, Soldiers, Palestine needs you. Palestine needs you in large numbers to spread awareness and pressure your governments and Mainstream Media to give Palestinians a fair deal. Is that too much to expect?
Free Gaza , Free Palestine.
Debbie Menon
My full sympathies are with the people of Palestine, their position is not an envious one. I pray that this new year brings some relief to them.
Its a struggle to continue, its not only Egypt thats a Pawn but the entire leadership in the Muslim World stands in the same line.
Shame on our leadership who have sold their people for their gains.
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Serious proclamations, accusations and indictments by Haitham:
FIRST:
• Haitham claims: Hamas smuggles drugs
“The "Wall of shame" as you call it is a different story. tell Hamas to stop smuggling drugs (one of many reasons) in and out from Gaza then we can speak about it. Keeping in mind that if Egypt wants to cut aid to Gaza, all what they need to do is close the road that leads to Egyptian Rafah.”
SECOND:
• Haitham claims: Hamas smuggles terrorists groups
“We all know who controls the tunnels, and what they are used for. Who can dig a tunnel and who can't. What can be brought from Egyptian Rafah and what should not. And we all know that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. In fact food is just a cover to many other businesses and even worse a passage for terrorist groups such as Al-Qaedaa and their likes which Gaza are full with these days. If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason. That not to mention the drugs business. Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. definitely not to buy food for the palestinians in Gaza. ”
THIRD:
• Haitham claims: Hamas are financially corrupt:
“Hamas leaders are not living in tents and their kids don't miss a meal! ”
“And we all know that the tunnels are not used ONLY for food. In fact food is just a cover to many other businesses”
“That not to mention the drugs business. Guess who is doing the trading and were the money goes. definitely not to buy food for the palestinians in Gaza. ”
FORTH:
• Haitham Defends Egypt:
“Egypt can do more and better, but they are not responsible for what we are in now, but the occupation and our PA and Hamas.”
“this turned to no more than smearing Egyptians, which have done to Gaza more than any other Arabian or Western country did.”
“why would Egypt open the boarders? At the end of the day they have the right to protect their citizens”
“Why in the world any country open its borders without any regulations?
“As for the passport thing, well, we should be thankful for egypt then that they take this risk.”
“Are the Egyptians closing Rafah crossing by their own? No, the Palestinian Authority asked them to do that. ”
FIFTH:
• Then he denies it:
“no one is defending Egypt. I don't defend the Egyptian regime nor have sympathy with what they do. It's never happened”
SIXTH:
• Haitham does not acknowledge the democratically elected Government of Hamas and blames them for what’s happening to Palestinians :
“So if Galloway want to blame anyone and not the Israeli occupation, then it is the PA and Hamas”
“Egypt can do more and better, but they are not responsible for what we are in now, but the occupation and our PA and Hamas.”
“What if I was a criminal running away from my country, how would Egyptians know? This is the responsibility of PA and national boarder police, which is NOT Hamas and which Hamas refusing to install back.
“We all know that Hamas is not a government anymore”
“Hamas is not official regulation,”
SEVENTH:
• Haitham Defends the WALL OF SHAME:
“The "Wall of shame" as you call it is a different story”
“If this is not enough reason for Egypt to construct this iron wall, I don't know what can be a good reason”
EIGHTH:
• Haitham doesn’t mind corrupted PA:
“That's what I'm saying. put the blame and the pressure on US, Western Power and the occupation, Israel. Then they will allow PA to run Rafah border, which in turn will make Egyptians opens it. ”
“if the only way to ease the situation in Gaza is to put hand with corrupted PA, I don't mind.”
==================================
The question that begs an answer now:
where is your evidence Haitham??? And whose interest does all this proclamations, indictments and allegations serve other than the zionist occupiers??
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This is the home of the Palestinian Prime Minister and Hamas member Ismail Haniyeh:
http://tinyurl.com/ybu3k83
I would love to see how it compares to the palaces of other world leaders and Arab tyrants including that of PA leaders and of Mubarak of Egypt !!
QUOTE:
"…. Unlike Fatah leaders, Haniyeh moves without escort, and mixes freely with people on the streets. He has turned down the offer of 4,000 dollars a month as salary, and accepts only 1,500 dollars, which is what he needs, he says, for his family that includes 13 children. And he still lives in his old house in Shati Camp, one of the poorest refugee camps in the east of Gaza City."
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42079
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[...] read THIS, written by my dear Brother Haitham [...]
As Uprooted Palestinian, Jeff Blankfort, Nahida and a few others eloquently stated, Haitham's article and subsequent comments above, are unsubstantiated allegations.
Such allegations against Palestinians, Gazans and their supporters, are the very same hateful soundbites we hear and see everywhere in Judeo-Zionist run smear campaigns.
They don't hold water, not even to the most elementary scrutiny.
For example the ludicrous accusations that "Hamas and Hezbollah collaborate with Mexican drug cartels", comes… straight from the US government propaganda kitchens:
http://www.infowars.com/us-government-hamas-hezbollah-collaborating-with-mexican-drug-cartels/
…and to use Haitham's own vernacular "we all know who controls these…" poison kitchens.
Wherever the USA introduces wars and CIA, the drug business suddenly explodes, and that has one good reason: the CIA and the USA finance their covert operations with drug money. The CIA's narco-colonialism is dubbed by some "Cocaine Importing Agency". Contrary to US-America's propaganda kitchens, Afghanistan's Muslim Pashtuns had been successful in eradicating the opium trafficking. It is only after the US invasion, that Afghanistan became the epicenter of opiate production, under the input of the CIA peddlers.
But what is Haitham trying to say? That Gazans are so bored, wealthy and well-fed, that there is place for a large drug consumption, i.e. trafficking? Does it occur to him how ridiculous such statement is ?
Just like the Muslim Aghanis, the Muslim Hamas that Haitham obviously hates so much that –at best, it disconnects his little grey cells, are severely sanctioning drug trafficking.
http://www.javno.com/en-world/hamas-approves-law-to-execute-drug-dealers_284185
JAVNO HRVATSKI
November 30, 2009 15:24h
….
The Islamist Hamas-run government ruling Gaza has approved a legal change that will allow for the execution of convicted drug dealers, its attorney general said on Monday.
……..
- The Zionist law included light punishments that encouraged rather than deterred those who take and trade in drugs, and there is no objective, national or moral justification for continuing to apply it – Abed said.
…….
Hamas, meanwhile, has cracked down on drugs, saying it has arrested more than 100 alleged drug dealers and users, with dozens of kilogrammes (pounds) of contraband, mostly marijuana, seized.
…
http://keffiyehandonions.blogspot.com/2010/01/gaza-freedom-march-wrap-up.html
an interesting article written by a person on the GFM
I have just got in and will add my 2 cents to some of these comments.
correction to the above post
——–
As Uprooted Palestinian, Jeff Blankfort, Nahida and a few others eloquently stated, Haitham's article and subsequent comments above, are unsubstantiated allegations.
Such allegations against Palestinians, Gazans and their supporters, are the very same hateful soundbites we hear and see everywhere in Judeo-Zionist run smear campaigns.
They don't hold water, not even to the most elementary scrutiny.
For example the ludicrous accusations that "Hamas and Hezbollah collaborate with Mexican drug cartels", comes… straight from the US government propaganda kitchens:
http://www.infowars.com/us-government-hamas-hezbollah-collaborating-with-mexican-drug-cartels/
…and to use Haitham's own vernacular "we all know who controls these" poison kitchens.
Wherever the USA introduces wars and CIA, the drug business suddenly explodes, and that has one good reason: the CIA and the USA finance their covert operations with drug money. The CIA's narco-colonialism is dubbed by some "Cocaine Importing Agency". Contrary to US-America's propaganda kitchens, Afghanistan's <b<Muslim Pashtuns had been successful in eradicating the opium trafficking. It is only after the US invasion, that Afghanistan became the epicenter of opiate production, under the input of the CIA peddlers.
But what is Haitham trying to say? That Gazans are so bored, wealthy and well-fed, that there is place for a large drug consumption, i.e. trafficking in Gaza? Does it occur to him how ridiculous such statement is ?
Just like the Muslim Aghanis, the Muslim Hamas government is severely sanctioning drug trafficking
http://www.javno.com/en-world/hamas-approves-law-to-execute-drug-dealers_284185
JAVNO HRVATSKI
November 30, 2009 15:24h
….
The Islamist Hamas-run government ruling Gaza has approved a legal change that will allow for the execution of convicted drug dealers, its attorney general said on Monday.
……..
- The Zionist law included light punishments that encouraged rather than deterred those who take and trade in drugs, and there is no objective, national or moral justification for continuing to apply it – Abed said.
…….
Hamas, meanwhile, has cracked down on drugs, saying it has arrested more than 100 alleged drug dealers and users, with dozens of kilos of contraband, mostly marijuana, seized.
http://www.javno.com/en-world/hamas-approves-law-to-execute-drug-dealers_284185
…
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“Hamas leaders are not living in tents”; says Haitham
==================================================
Many of Hamas leaders indeed are not living in tents -or homes for that matter- anymore, because many of those heroic people are NOT LIVING anymore; period.
They have been assassinated and martyred, many with their families and loved ones:
• Yahya Ayyash, (1996), Hamas' military wing
• Salah Shahade, (2002), leader of Hamas' military wing
• Ibrahim al-Makadmeh, (2003), co-founder of Hamas
• Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, (2004), leader and founder of Hamas
• Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, (2004), leader of Hamas
• Izz El-Deen Sheikh Khalil, (2004), leader of Hamas' military wing
• Adnan al-Ghoul, (2004), leader of Hamas
• Nabil Abu Salmiya (2006), leader of Hamas
• Salah Abu Sharkh. (2009), leader of Hamas
• Mahmoud Abu Watfah (2009), leader of Hamas
• Ayad Siam (2009), leader of Hamas
• Said Siam (2009), leader of Hamas
• Nizar Rayyan (2009), leader of Hamas
To name but a few of the many THOUSANDS of those noble selfless souls
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Exilem… I am not going to comment on details, because I don't know them and besides, I don't want to endanger anyone. Let us just say that in all things, there are sides people don't know and there are things that won't ever be revealed. That said, it's always interesting to see people who just know more than those who are actually living in certain places or have direct contacts in certain milieus. Enough said on that. Let us just remember that Israel has a lot of drug users, OK? You can think what you want from this, that they get their stuff from who knows where. I don't know where they get them. I just drop that there for reflection. Maybe someday everyone will know everything, but now, no one knows everything and some know bits and pieces and some imagine bits and pieces and at any rate, the tunnels shouldn't be there. All of Gaza should be OPEN. Immediately and only with land and sea traffic bringing everything it needs and allowing it to move goods and people out. The tunnels should become a thing of the past, and the fact that they are being in some way closed by Egypt (since this is a new year and l want to be a silly optimist) might mean that the gateways are going to have to open very very soon, and they will). No one shows you all the cards they hold in their hands, do they. The moment they do, don't trust them. Always keep something close to your chest.
Nahida, just a reminder, Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas. Palestine is a vast, extremely vast thing, it is a place that we know, but it is also every single Palestinian who lives on this planet, and you more than most people I know, are deeply aware of that, so it shouldn't be a problem for you to remember that all Palestinians do not have the same views you do of Hamas and some don't consider them as perfect as you do. I personally am very supportive of Hamas, as my recent article demonstrates. That does not mean that someone who is far more patriotic and true to Palestine because every instant of his life is a Palestinian life and all he wants is to fight for justice for all his people, is going to love them as well. He may be very sympathetic with them, but this doesn't mean he worships all they do or even that what their programme is is what he wants. If I were a Palestinian, and that's an honour I wasn't born with, the party I support may not be the same one that I have always loved and always supported more fully than other parties, the PFLP, which is the party that I think would be the ideal one to lead Palestine, however, I am not Palestinian and can't tell them what's best. Besides, PTT is not an anti hamas site and Haitham is not anti Hamas, so this kind of "stuff" does not belong here. But the point is: there should be unity of Palestinians – Unity against the Israel enemy in the first, second and third place, then against the USA, then against the Arab regimes and the EU that aid and abet and then down down down the line all the others who sell out Palestinians and some of them come in sheep's clothing .
Now, onto something more important, about the March. Did anyone but Haitham, Greta Berlin, Stuart Littlewood, Uruknet and myself notice the change in the activist world and the attention? The big demos and all the anger was directed SQUARELY at Egypt. Yes. No more Anti-Israel? Zionism isn't to be battled as the enemy? Where the hell did the down with Israel or down with occupation chants go that I must have screamed for decades?
Let me say one other comment, and I think it's important: Did you notice how Gaza got permanently detached from Palestine? That is a new one, and not a good one.
Where are we shouting or calling for a FREE PALESTINE? Nowhere in the activist world. They have accepted the amputation of Gaza… brilliant.
This has been a MAJOR error in reasoning for activists, and it's not going to help liberate Palestine at all. It might even give lots more fuel to Abbas and the PA, who would like nothing more than to dump the whole place onto the arms of Egypt.
I can say, "nice work". I am sure that the Gazans are grateful.
As to the paperwork, it's NO small matter! If you won't make compromises, HELL! YOU SAY IT AND YOU STICK WITH IT! Was it "unsaid?" Hm, we still haven't got the answers, has anyone else gotten them? If the organisers left with X instructions, they go there and do it if they agree on it, and if they don't agree, then they MAKE THEIR RANK AND FILE AWARE. If they only wanted to make themselves look heroic and the Egyptians as the only enemy, how can we know.
We wanted nothing but the success of all of this, as is true from our support, in many ways, to these marchers and to every other effort made for Palestinians and especially Gazans right now.
but what do we see? No focus on Gazans, when it is THE DAMNED ANNIVERSARY OF THEIR MASSACRE. I look around at sites, seems only a handful mentioned the war and most of them used Haitham's film to present it. The Gazans got ripped off in a moment that should have been THEIRS. If the organisers planned it that way, it's sad, and that's not an understatement. It is tragic and almost devious.
I don't want to think they intended that, in fact, we didn't until it became clear that the INTERNATIONAL Activists were there to save the day and be the heroes. but they couldn't really do, because they were the Armata Brancaleone and not the Armada Invincibile. And now, the activists here attack Haitham because he pointed to the evidence that the marchers were dragged up and down in an impossible journey when they would have been able to do what they are doing according to the compromises perhaps (??) withheld from them when the original plans had been to do things the way they accepted back in November? It's strange, and are we supposed to not mention it?
Still waiting for all clarification.
Nahida, I'm going to choose one of those names you have listed there specifically for a reason. You referred to HIM because you listed HIM, as a "noble selfless soul" Yahya Ayyash, known as "the engineer". Please correct me if I am wrong, was he not the one who constructed the bombs for suicide bombers?
JUST asking Nahida, because I'm trying to wrap my brain around your post, who you listed as a "noble selfless soul".
To get back on the topic of the deviation of the point of the march(es) I print here a quote from the site linked in a prior comment. She makes a lot of sense, and this is the same sort of question we are asking.
There was no unified message besides come out in the streets and protest. It felt like everyone kind of went their own way and that now instead of focusing on the occupation we were going to go after the Egyptian government – which as much as I have issues with that they are doing and how they add to the Palestinian suffering – that is not why I came here.
Lets clarify something here. As much as I hate Egypt, Egypt is NOT occupying the Palestinian territories. ISRAEL is. I mean, to a certain degree, by doing of all this, I feel, we took a lot of heat off of Israel b/c the press coverage just shows a bunch of people demonstrating in Cairo, which is giving the message that we have a problem with Egypt for what they are doing wrong when we were here to raise awareness of the ISRAELI OCCUPATION and Operation Cast Lead which was carried out by ISRAEL one year ago. Why are people shouting "Free Egypt" at the demonstrations? It makes no sense, we had no focus.
Mary, dear,
Perhaps u haven't read my post in which i afirm that what egypt is doing against pal'ns for the last two yrs or so is wrong.
I also asserted that egypt, or rather its gov't, is solely responsible for own wrong doings.
It is not israel, nato, or US which are forcing egypt'n gov't to act the way do against pal'ns. As u can see, i am deliberately not splitting, for obvious reasons, pal'ns into hamas and PA or into gazans and pal'ns.
I am not going to afirm that what egypt does against palestina represents causes of war. I'll let pal'ns decide that! If i were a pal, i wld definately cry out: Egypt'n acts are a casus belli; knowing tho that pals can't do a damn thing about it.
Perhaps it is money that makes egypt do criminal, in my mind, acts. No causative factor appears to be forcing egypt to close crossings and boarders.
Haitham does lot of condemning, accusing, etc. I came from a partizan family. And it does seem that partizani have done lotsof wrong deeds. But i never have blamed them for trying to liberate yugoslavia from fascist italy and nazi germany.
Hamas are working against occupation. And who works, perps even very bad deeds and mistakes, But why wld i dwell on hamas wrongs which appear thousandfold smaller than what nato US, isr, egypt are doing.
It is just like socialism or justice: socialsit and just people often fail socialism and justice; especially, when surrounded on all sides by enemies who are a mn times stronger econo-military-diplo side.
That it is what is happening to pal'ns.
In add'n knowing this i have never blamed PA for its, what appear to me, wrong doings. i don't know what PA is up to
so i stay away from accusing them of anything yet. But i also don't think they are traitors.
Yes, situation bwtn PA and hamas is very bad; i am not going to take sides and widen the gap btwn these two grous who may have the same endgoal in mind.
Haitham shld review his grasp of the situation. tnx
mary, please, let us not blame protesters just because just once or twice or more times they had been wrong in some peoples`eyes. I admire all their acts, including socalled mistakes! tnx
Dear Bozh, I understand your point. I also know that it's like Haitham said earlier, people read very selectively. Now they are stating he's Anti hamas, which isn't the case. He doesn't owe anyone to tell what his personal affiliations are, he is a Palestinian who wants whatever it takes to get liberation to happen and soon, and he's worked harder for it than anyone I have ever known, and he has never sold out his people and never will. Full stop. He supported the Hamas victory, as all decent people should, and this is no secret, nor did he write J-Post like things. He doesn't read Hasbara Israeli press, nor does he have any reason to believe a word of anything an Israeli writes is true. Some of it might be, some of it might be false.
This is true also of others as well, US press, Internationals, solidarity campaigners, Palestinians, Arab and Palestinian politicians, everyone. He translated a press release, by the way… I can't (and won't) speak for Haitham, but let's just say that I would kind of guess that his relations with Hamas are at a greater level than anyone who has thus intervened. This does not mean that he has to be a-critical of them because if he does not say that all they do is great, he will be accused of writing like someone on the J Post!! It is ridiculous at best. I will stop there, as it's none of anyone's business, actually, to get into the personal details of those here – unless… unless they are asking for our money or asking us to follow them around and do their agenda. We need to know in that case. It's called transparency. If PTT or Haitham is asking for your money or for you to follow them to another country for an action, including going to a war zone or where you will not have your own passport to protect you, and they ask you to spend your energy and time and support them in all your dealings and to flood internet with support of them, you can hold them accountable for it, and should do it.
If (and I want to believe this is the case) the ONLY agenda was supporting the Palestinians and lifting the siege, it had miserably failed, if we want to classify that as remembering the recent destruction of Palestine, the slavery of Palestine to Israel under a BRUTAL occupation. It was not appropriately remembered at all.
And, the distinction, constant, of not referring to Gaza as Palestine is another negative consequence, and it makes it look like the West Bank (which I from now on will call West Bank, Palestine) is what the goal is.. that things there are great, only because they aren't under the inhumane siege. Things there suck terribly and they are also imprisoned! But the destruction of Palestine, made in the most brutal of ways by the destruction of Gaza and the blockade on it, were/are the doings of Israel and are backed by all kinds of friends of Israel, including the hated Egyptian regime (not to be confused with Egyptian state or people). If anyone wants to be confused still, they are doing it as wilful idiots. There, I said it! Selective readers are doing it on purpose at this point.
YES it is right to condemn those evil collaborators in the oppression of Palestinians, and it's not only Egyptian regime, but like I said before SHIFTING the campaign there was a massive error.
If the situation was GET AID TO GAZANS that could have been done by sea, and the organisers know that. Thus, the questions are legitimate since in the pre-set (and thus agreed upon) conditions, the entry would be by ferry at a specific date, and nothing else was the plan. What's happening? They enter by ferry crossing through Israeli waters. They knew it would come to this, because it was not popped on them, it was in writing, so why didn't they do it?
I don't know.
I would like to know, and so far, they don't answer. We will wait and see.
At this point, like always, all that matters is freeing Palestine from Zionism and Zionists.
If anyone is confused as to the meaning of this: Zionism means, "Israel is a Jewish State and has the right to be one" stuff. If someone thinks that, in my view, they have no rights to live in Palestine because Palestinians have rights to be there, and if the zionists can't recognise it, they are racist and should go away and not live in the middle of the Arab world where there are going to be Arabs who are Muslims and Christians as well as Jews. If they want to live as Palestinians in Palestine, they can worship as Jews and no one will stop them doing so. If they want more rights as Jews, then they are racists and should forget compromise, they are the enemy.
that should be clear.
please refrain from personal attacks. We don't allow them anymore, we actually do have better things to do than to field them and all of us, the "critics included", are too busy to bother with that kind of activism. Unless the point there is just to slam other Palestinian activists. If that's the point, you can take your stuff where it will be appreciated. We are interested in ideas, not in smearing.
Bozh, a lot of protesters didn't think they'd be going there to protest Egypt. Honest.
dear Mary,
we entirely agree on the following:
– as a matter of fact, as soon as this 08/09 latest Gaza massacre occurred, i warned of the dangers of disconnecting Gaza from the rest of Palestine in campaigns, and thus implanting the split in the public's perception. It is of course safe to speculate that this split is by design. The speculation gains even more ground in light of the Judeo-Zionist networks grooming of PA in association with West Bank, Palestine, and demonizing of Hamas in association with Gaza, Palestine
– that tunnels and walls should be a "a thing of the past", and that people should move freely through these artificial, foreign imposed "borders", is rather self-evident. There is no need to argue on that between us.
– a prerequisite for a successful battle for a FULL liberation of Palestine, is indeed a strategical UNITY amongst a larger majority of Palestinians. That implies the need to put political differences on the back-burner during the battle.
where we disagree however, is in monumental blunders of strategy, for example:
– only our Judeo-Zionist enemy profits, when we engage in accusing and attacking overtly our allies, like in this case G. Galloway's convoy, or M.Benjamin's march. I am not a zealot of these figures, but it occurs to me that tactically they have proven themselves more than others. When you deal with regimes like Mubarak's, you must push harder, no matter what ugly tricks they use, and indeed it means sometimes ignoring some documents and injunctions whose sole intention is deterrent. Hence not being deterred allows to go to the next step, and so on. It is painfully self-evident. When engaging in acts of resistance in whatever shape or form, transparency might not be in all circumstances the best option, as you well know ! Actually you said yourself a bit earlier, that "no one shows you all the cards they hold in their hands, do they. The moment they do, don't trust them. Always keep something close to your chest"
– only our Judeo-Zionist enemy profits, when we engage in supporting overtly the collaborators of our enemies like the hideous Mubarak regime. It is our business, legitimate and necessary business, to expose and target the collaborators, especially those with fresh blood on their hands. To conceal the extent of Zionist influence inside the corrupt Arab regimes would be a huge mistake, as sometimes the line between perpetrators and complicits become blurry. Exposing a cruel complicit, i.e. Mubarak's regime, does not obfuscate the core of the problem, i.e. the occupation of Palestine which calls itself "Israel"
– it is -at best extremely detrimental to the Palestinian cause, when some of us engage in repeating uncorroborated allegations, notoriously false accusations, blatant smear campaigns, more over when these have their source in the enemy's poisonous propaganda kitchen.
– it is appalling to accuse Gazans whose sheer survival is at stake, accusing them of engaging in illegal trades and trafficking, or even to indirectly insult them, implying they may be "a criminal running away from my country" or worse still: to smuggle in/out the usual casus belli "al-qaeda". Historically, many survived the walled-off Warsaw Ghetto thanks to smuggling of food and other stuff through tunnels and sewers. Following Haitham's logic, this smuggling was trafficking, the ghetto wall was justified, and the nazis' strict control over who enters and leaves was legitimate protection from criminals and terrorists !
– it is revolting, to hear "one of us" jump on the demonizing of Iran bandwagon, to justify his attacks on one of our RARE open allies, Iran. Palestine is extremely isolated, the world still ignores the Palestinian genocide, and the control over means to RESISTANCE is extremely tight. So what does that mean when "one of us" is engaging in friendly fire? Big words such UNITY have been uttered, but that should not be a mere word, but also engaged acts and solidarity., even when sometimes we have disagreements.
– Mary, i don't "know more" than people living in Gaza/Palestine, and i don't "know more" than people with contacts with certain milieus. It just happens that my wife has family in Gaza, and that it just happens that i stayed extensively in Mexico, in the state of the drug cartels' epicenter. Now it is indeed well known that "Israeli" and especially IDF, are a drug plagued group, but do you really believe that a concentration camp surrounded by fences, walls, sensors, tanks and weapons, surveilled by drones, regularly bombed, etc, is the place a drug cartel would choose to pass its contraband, whereas sailboats can freely anchor in "Israeli" ports, and more precisely even, where military cargo containers are delivered uncontrolled to IDF? OK ?
In conclusion, attacking the tactics of an ally rather than attacking the deeds of a zionist collaborator regime, is an ill choice for anyone whose true ultimate aim is the liberation of Palestine, –of all of Palestine.
Additionally, i agree with you 100 % that organizing a flotilla of hundreds of boats to Gaza could have significant impact. In fact the idea is not new, as you know. But please, instead of berating those who engaged in somewhat effective land action, why don't you organize this action by sea? It is easy to say to others a posteriori they should have done this or should have done that.
Mary, your readers and friends here are mostly enlightened and experienced observers, it is not very pertinent to accuse us of "selective reading". Criticizing Haitham's posts in THIS and ONLY THIS thread, should not be understood as a personal attack on him, but rather on some of his explicit statements he made in THIS THREAD. I personally didn't read any ad hominem attacks, but i see you engaging in ad hominem defense ;-)
Let me be clear: I am and remain an ardent supporter and friend of PTT and Mary's.
dear Exilem, I responded to most of what you wrote in a response to your personal email, so this is only addressing a point here. I did not see your comment until after sorting through emails, which takes more time than any other activity I have.
first of all, didn't know you got married and congratulations to you both!
second, I do question an inconsistency here. You claim that in no way does anyone in Gaza have anything whatsoever to do with drug trafficking, (which of course, I don't have proof to deny or claim, obviously, and I doubt you do either, though some other people most certainly must) and then at the same time point out that Hamas is cracking down on drug trafficking and has arrested 100 persons.
It's either one or the other, it can't be both.
Dear mary,
There is no doubt in my mind that the protest against egypt'n gov't is of some value. It is, tho, only one tactical act contributing to the endresult as pal'ns envision it now or in decades to come.
yes, i cld be wrong in assuming that the end goal now of the two leaderships is the same or similar. And in decades to come, the telos may be the same or similar also. We can assume, tho, that nato, US, Isr wld avoid a settlement for at least some decades.
Mary, i did not expect that the march wld nudge isr/US/nato lands into lifting the siege or show a sliver of human face.
I think u need to rethink ur statement that the tactical act in question failed to lift the siege; especially in view that the marchers may have never promised [perhaps only hoped?] that the action wld compel isr to lift it and egypt to stop its criminal actions against palestine.
Hopefully, when one protests against criminal govt's, one keeps in mind that one is achieving a plus by alerting people to their respective gov'ts crimes.
And then one hopes that protesting wld grow. That's how s.africa's apartheit ended. True, ruling class also so value in it. Maybe ruling class in expalestine may also learn that it wld be best to go for peace; i.e., one state solution.
Exilem,
U have said it well. I wld only add that i desire to know what pal'n endgoal is in expalestine.Declaration of the final goal wld also be of enorm value to all pal'ns and and peace activists.
This one card, i hope, wld be on the table; even if it is only a pal'n state in wb-gaza;possibly, with minor changes that pal'ns cld live with.
Proclamation of what pal'ns want, does not have to be unanimous. However, their leaderships' shld be unanimous or near unanimous!
They need to unite for at least that one purpose!
As an aside, i can't see or accept that the wb leadership is traitorous to own people!! tnx
Exilem, one question about Unity though.. Is Iran supporting Arab Unity? Is this or was it ever on its agenda? (when you say Iran, do you mean, nation, state, people, leadership, what?) Definitely, on the right page regarding denouncing Zionism with words. No one said that wasn't true. But is true support for Palestinians not also true support for the Arab Nation? I also have not seen Iran make positive steps towards enabling Palestinian unity, which is now the cry that comes from the people, (many are asking for a reconciliation in effect to take place so the real enemy can be fought). If I am missing something, please point it out. I don't watch much TV and I probably haven't seen things you are referring to.
Do you perhaps think that Arab Unity is not an important value? Perhaps it isn't but let's just take into account that perhaps it is. At any rate, I have to admit, my inspiration is very dated, Nasser, Habash, et al. So I do want to see Arabhood rise up from the ashes. It can help things greatly in the world.
I have been unable to follow all of this conversation, but I don't see demonisation of Iran rushing out anywhere in the post or in comments. Perhaps it's in some undercurrent of some comment I skimmed over, but it is at any rate an OT if it's there. Perhaps.
I think we all can agree Israel is the enemy. Egypt is ANOTHER enemy, but it is not the main one that all should unite and fight.
It seems to me that most arab feudal lords [and thus also warlords] are united like never before in order to maintain their rule over their respective domestics.
It also seems to me that the two main arab religions now strongly [as before] support master class [amirs, aghas, sultans, kings] in ?all arab lands.
Now the master class in many arab and some muslim lands have US/nato/isr protection as well. Most of these lands had to either abandon or actually turn against pal'ns to obtain the protection they need to retain the plutocratic rule for decades or centuries lngr.
Most muslim ruling classes must have espied even long ago that US is a fascist empire. So, is it any wonder that fascists in muslim lands are uniting with other fascists?
The feudal lords and warlords have heard US; oops, bush, say, U'r either with us or against us. Amirs, princes, deys r not stupid; but even if they were, the statement cannot but be misunderstood.
In any case, entire muslim world can't decide [can help decide perhaps in the future] the fate of the pal'ns no matter what they did. Waging war against isr wld surely result in further expansion of irsael. Israel/US had baited arabs many times, but arabs have learned their lesson: let new generations [?with better weapons and conditions] deal with israel!
I think that solely or largely, it wld be US which wld decide the fate of pal'ns! Meanwhile, one waits and hopes for best! tnx
Does everyone feel better now? Have we all expressed our disappointments and sorrows well enough?
Frustration is a perilous slope to navigate when accomplishments dont meet expectations. Many called for support for the Gaza Freedom march, built capital for people to feel comfortable with the possibility of set backs and road blocks and yet after trying to be frank about the risks, some ommisions of fact or transparency as to possible outcomes could have been handled better, as could some critiques from those bystanding the event in blogs.
How many activists felt that the blockade would be broken in this action? How many felt that MP George Galloway would escape his third confrontation with Egypt unscathed? Did members of the Code Pink group or the French group feel as though their end would come stopped behind the Rafah Gates or that somehow the gates would open and offer release for pent up frustrations? A lot of feelings were hurt, expectations came far from reality and some were very dissapointed not to see Gaza in 3 dimensions, up close, personally and as a dear friend, the anticipation of reunion and support offered and accepted with grace fell short and the let down is quite evident.
God grant us the clarity of mind to see the glass as half full, after reservations well voiced, we need a positive revelation to bouy future events and increase our faith is peaceful resistance as the best way forward for Palestine.
Frustration is a human feeling of haplessness in the face of a challenge, we do face a serious challenge to Palestinian human rights achievement in Palestine, hapless we are not, nor is Galloway or Code Pink or any attempts made to secure better lives for disenfranchised Palestinians without merit and worthy of praise and thankgiving.
My mother, Gloria Gates was known to use a cliche or two, euphemisms, parables and asimile, metaphor and scritural reference were her tools of communication, her favorite cliche was "dont look a gift horse in the teeth" and old French cliche as it were and born of her mother, Marie Lejune, a hard woman by any standars and the basis of my deep respect for the feminine gender, her observations were made in terese tones withhickory switch near at hand always. we listened when these matriachs spoke, for their wisdom transcended convention, and transposed lexicons from bygone eras into prose woirthy of respect from every generation, timesless wisdom, true and tested we need to abide in it's value and show better praise for jobs difficult but challenged by fruitful hands and risked as defeats to bare up the posibility of sucess.
When a gift is offered, we see a horse, seemingly healthy and fit fir use, but we are always tempted to part this nags lips to inspect the teeth, a sign of general healt in any animal, if they are good one is embarrased for checking, if not one is pressed to decline a wothless or perhaps less valued gift and risk further embarrasment at not acknowledging the though behind a gift for which no bill comes and perhaps no thanks, hence little can be expected in the way of offers in the future,
Palestine knows what it wants? hardly, their are as many palestines as their are Palestinians what they all need is equal individual rights, the special interests claim to be reps of some enclaves and possibly are true to their forms and consituencies, but what the world body politic expects in Palestine is equal rights for every man, woman and child, that done, we have the stability to open the doors of Palestine to the world that formed it in it's activism, without which we know not where Palestine abides nor when or if ever,
If asked, we depart, gladly, and leave the theater to Palestine alone and save our efforts for any asking for support in the future or decline as is prudent, but withdraw we never from advancing the equal human rights for individual world citizens enforced by the INTERPOL, ICC, UN and Conventions of Humans rights declarations pertaining to Israel and the Middle east. There are laws to be obeyed and all are constrained by these laws, no exceptions.
Egyptian law mandates that it's borders are protected by Egypt with no part given to the PA or Palestine to incur openings based on need. This is unfair, obviously tilted in favor of Israel and the US and procured by Payment and armaments to Egypt and aid which is based on compliance with Israeli needs and ignorant and unobservant of the needs of Palestine as a whole nation..
If unfair laws are made in conspiracy to deny equal rights to Arabs as rendered in Egypt or Israel, but denied to Palestine protest, directly to Egypt, is appropriate as they are made in the image of the wests needs and not even mindful of the damage this does to Arab unity or Palestinain solidarity. Netenyahoo visited Mubarak in the past days, and Mubarak is reported to have demanded Israel opening of borders to relive Gaza's blockade and was ignored. Isnt it prudent to exhort Egyptian officials and the population to demand better for Muslim Arab brothers and sisters in Gaza or has politics and misperception clouded some minds as to whom we face down to make our way to Gaza?
I forgot to also say that palestinians are not arabs even tho nabateans and arameans have migrated from arab peninsula to canaan some 4.4k yrs ago. Canaanites and arabs probably became a melting pot even before rise of a cult called mosheism.
Pal'ns, i am told, r more secular than arabs. These two factors also militate against them! Let us recall that even zionists have stopped caling them arabs once they spotted that is in their interest to do so. tnx
Jerry, Did I ever tell you I think you are great? If I never did, and I most certainly should have at least 2 or 3 times in the past year, if not a whole lot more, let me say it, Jerry, you're great.
Ok we shall all take a step back and also consider the important things that we need to work on.
There are many important things, and we don't ignore any of them. That might mean people misinterpret us. But one thing is going to be certain. We will not surrender Palestine to anyone (and I mean we hopefully including all here, who Love Palestine, sometimes more than their own lives.). We won't surrender it to those who want to occupy it or rid it of its rightful inhabitants, the Palestinians. That does not mean "ethnic cleansing of Jews". it means that the racism of Zionism has to end and people have to make reparations to the Palestinians and welcome them back home to all of Palestine, and I don't mean only Gaza / WB. Palestine is Palestine and people know it, even the Israelis do.
To those who arrogantly smear activists on the ground and who cowardly undermine the heroic Arab Resistance in Palestine, I recommend to read, and to reconsider their position:
George Galloway being interviewed by Al-JazeeraTV in Gaza, Palestine on 6th Jan. 2010, just after breaking the Israelo-Egyptian siege.
“ We are not only bringing aid, we are trying to show the world there is a siege, and if there is anyone who was doubting there is a siege on Gaza, they certainly aren't doubting it now, with this convoy”
“ The situation with Egypt was avoidable. I privately advised them the way to avoid it, because I was determined to try to avoid the 27th of Dec. 2009 being a confused date. It ought to be the date when all eyes and all fingers were pointing at Israel the criminal that killed 1400 people in 22 days, most of them women and children”
“ I begged Egypt don't have everybody with their eyes on you instead of their eyes on Israel. If they had behaved sensibly, they would have said to their friends in America and their friends in Tel Aviv: look, this is a very sensitive anniversary for us, you have to give us some slack, you'll have to give some flexibility here, or we'll end up being blamed for something Israel did, which is exactly what's happened”
and to those who ask why Viva Palestina didn't attempt to go through Israel, Galloway replies:
“ We will never set foot in Israel, we will never ask them permission for anything, we will never recognize Israel as long as there is no Palestine, as long as the Palestinian people are scattered to the 4 corners of the earth as refugees, as long as Jerusalem is being monstrously ethnically cleansed, with settlements surrounding and choking the very life and greatness out of it, as long as Palestinians are being assassinated and bombed from the air”
and to those engaged in smear campaigns against Hamas, and allegations that Viva Palestina's convoys are divisive:
“ I am in favor of the unity of the Palestinian people, as I always said. I am not myself a supporter of Hamas. I was with Yasser Arafat since I was 21 years old, and I was on his bedside in Paris when he died. My point is, that only the Palestinian people has the right to chose their leadership, that was true when it was Arafat and it is true now when they vote for people the West and Israel don't like. We can't chose other people's leaders.”
“The Palestinian people will never be starved to surrender”
Exilem, no need to put the same post on various threads. We aren't always here at our computers, but sooner or later we see the posts that are sent, one is enough.
a few comments:
Your intro sounds like an accusation. Is it?
You might like to know that lots and lots of other "activists" have critiqued and questioned the methods and strategy, as well as wondering what good the deaths are going to bring, if this was avoidable or not. I hope you don't feel all of them are cowards or undermining heroic Arab resistance. It would be a shame if you think that this is the case. to question leaders is a sacrosanct right and the best way forward.
As well, why does Galloway have to say he is not a supporter of Hamas? Who is he speaking to? Is this an important message to someone. Should he get a lesson on the heroism of Hamas? I don't know. It is just a question.
I would like you to listen to the entire interview. In fact, why not carry on and translate the whole interview. especially from minute 9:40 to 19:00.
here are some highlights:
1. First he ignores to mention Nov letter
2. He admits receiving Dec letters, but his excuse that the convoy was already in Syria
3. When asked again, he denies that he got Nov letter and admits that he got Dec letter only.
Fact: the press release which they published and send a copy to us admits that they got both letter (Nov and Dec) and that Galloway answered in written letter, which he does not mention anywhere in the interview, although he talks about some confidential letter that he sent to the Egyptian embassy (begging them as he says) telling them that it will not be good for Egypt to appear in this position. When that letter was sent and why, not clear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaTKmuyyvVo
It is important for some of us to note the contradictions here. They matter, especially if stated by one who says he does not support Hamas, nor will he "set foot in Israel". He should realise it's all Palestine and everyone has the right to march in there and straight to any place they want.
We need to be enlightened about this person, about his methods, his claims and resources.
That said, it is easy to read something selectively and with an eye for attacks. I ask what purpose this is serving.
To all people against Hamas. what is the alternative? have Abbas accomplished any thing? has the most dovish of all political figures and movements in palestine today gotten any where? Hamas is too young an oraganisation to get any where just yet. It is part of a regional awakening. it takes time. But you, the desperate impatient ones are putting them down. Dont forget that there are palestinians out here who got land in Forty eight which is Real Palestine Proper. Dont negotiate our surrender for us. Have a nice day.
Uprooted Palestine is now a censor. He complains about us censoring comments, but he won't publish the comment I left!
As I know, you get absolutely nothing for winning internet wars, but truth is worth something. After his blog decided to stage a cyber war against us, we ignored it for a while. But getting a bit sick of it, we asked Gilad to do something about it. He said he didn't like the way UP, (who he does not even know) was doing it, but said he had no "control over these people" but to tell him when these things were going on and he would "try to do something about it". We know that he didn't try, but we gave him some time, cuz we try to do these messy things behind closed doors.
After the series of idiotic smear posts, today I left a comment with UP's exciting new CENSORSHIP FEATURE! i had to use my "blogger" id, since anyone reading my stuff since 2004 will be aware of it, "the cutter". But, he had something to complain about that too! Can't please this anonymous abuser, can I?
Anyway, here is the post I left that he decided to edit and post parts of with his idiotic comments. You see, he wants to paint me as anti-Hamas. Funny, isn't it?
But the censor is arguing with himself. Either post it all, or ignore it, but bullies act like bullies because that's all they know how to do. THE WAR WILL RAGE NOW, won't it UP? here is the comment that his 15 readers might miss. (Left on some kind of post calling me a "wheelchair critic".)
Some rapid comments:
Even people in wheelchairs should not be insulted. You might think it's cute, but believe me, it isn't.
Gilad would have "allowed" the article, know why? Gilad agreed with Haitham! Yes, He did. "Haitham was right" was just one of his comments in an email to Haitham and me.
Gilad didn't leave PTT, he was asked to leave. Why? Because, well, after his drooling praise to Obama for telling Palestinians to quit killing, his plugging of Ibish and another "Muslim Scholar" who approved the Iraqi invasion, his calling a Zionist movie "Therapy" and promoting it as if it were the best thing on earth, and then some other things far more serious, we set some conditions, easy ones: 1) don't insult people on comments, 2) get me your papers already edited because I haven't got time anymore to dedicate to rewriting, formatting, giving them titles and art, circulating them. I will do some stuff, but no longer will do all of it, 3) circulate to your mailing list ONE single article ONE time a MONTH by a Palestinian.
The answer? "I don't take conditions, and I was never interested in any of that."
So, we took his featured segment off, not intending to cancel him, but he got all mad, felt "cyberly cleansed" and then when he posted his papers up, refused to put their source, changed a few of the titles (The Wandering Who, for instance, was my title, like 75% of all of them, but he republished the paper with some other title) and when we said, credit the source, he refused. so.. bye bye prima donna!
He isn't even a collaborator here, he says he doesn't know UP, not even his name or where he lives, he just sends his stuff like he sends them to all the other places he wants to be published.
Regarding Hamas and Galloway… if Galloway knows that giving money to Hamas is illegal in the USA, he promised the VP USA people he would work through NGOs, but then gave money to Hamas on camera… well, these USA people all of a sudden find themselves investigated. Is that a good way to do things?
Anyway, I got a bit tired of reading your invention of the PTT narrative. Have all the fun you want, but the truth is totally different than how you depict it! ENJOY!!!