Sami Jamil Jadallah – Major Nidal Hasan and Rabbi/Senator Joseph Lieberman.
By Sami Jamil Jadallah • Nov 11th, 2009 at 14:42 • Category: Counter-terrorism, No thanks!, Features, Human Rights, Israel, Newswire, Palestine, Religion, War, Zionism
“If we kill a gentile who had sinned or has violated one of the seven commandments… there is nothing wrong with the murder,” Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira head of the Od Yosef Yeshiva in the illegal Jewish settlement of Yitzhak was quoted in the Israeli newspaper Maariv. Rabbi Shapira (no doubt an American Jew) recently published a new book “King’s Torah”, a manifesto of 230 pages on ways and means to kill gentiles according to Jewish laws.
Nothing will make Senator/Rabbi Joseph Lieberman and many of the leadership of the American Jewish community, leading Christian Zionists and NeoCons more happy than to hang on any flimsy uncorroborated evidence that Major Nidal Malik Hasan is an “Islamist terrorist” with active connections to Al qaeda. Joining Senator/Rabbi Lieberman with this wish is a large number of Congressmen who already asked CIA director Leon Panetta and National Intelligence chief Dennis Blair to “preserve” all documents and intelligence files related to Hasan. This tragic event will be a bonanza for American Jewish organizations, Evangelical Zionist Christians, certainly to the many so-called experts on terrorism, most of whom are anti-Muslims to begin with. Of course Rabbi/Senator Lieberman chose to ignore the new “fatwa/edict” issued by a fellow Rabbi, chose to ignore the fact that traitors and spies for Israel are fellow Jews, and is looking for ways to prove that Muslims are born killers and murderers.
As a former soldier and a veteran of US Army (66-68) with four other brothers (Nabil- US Army-Lifer, Lutfi-US Marines, Suleiman-US Army and Taiseer-US Marines) with two nephews Aaron and Jamil currently serving in the US Army, we can only sympathise with the families and friends of victims and we also extend our sympathy and support for the family of the killer since they are under so much pressure and scrutiny in the US. I happen to come from the same hometown (El-Bireh) in Palestine where the parents of Major Nidal Hasan came from. I also remember one of his family members Jad Hasan who served in the US Army and was stationed in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
The US Army today is not the same army when we served back in the late 60’s and early 70’s. In those days. America was not the America of today, driven by hate and anger with the events of September 11. Hate and anger toward Arabs and Muslims driven by Zionist Jews, Christian Zionists and NeoCons who are the engine behind this hostility that Arabs and Muslims face and feel in present day USA.
In the good old days, we had nothing but full respect and total acceptance from officers and fellow soldiers; we were buddies spending evenings and weekends together as colleagues and brothers. There was no such hostility and there was no active role for Christian Evangelicalism. The US Army was not the army of the New Christian Crusade promoted by commanders and chaplains. It was a professional non-sectarian army where the religion and faith of one is not an extra baggage to carry. We were given time off to perform the Friday noon prayer in Ft. Huachuca, Arizona. The captain of my basic camp company in Ft. Polk, Louisiana arranged for me to have special food free of bacon and pork. It was not total kosher, but it was a gesture that I will cherish and honor for the rest of my life. At the US 6th Army NCO Academy I was awarded the leadership award in competition with an ideal army poster guy from North Dakota, tall, handsome, well built, and I was a skinny 130 lbs guy who spoke English with an accent.
Now we see US soldiers, prior to deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan, highly charged bumped with “Christian faith and Muslim hate” by Evangelical chaplains promoting their own form of Evangelical Christianity with its hidden roots in Zionism. Today’s army is not the army we knew then, where religion and especially Evangelical Christianity and Zionism is actively promoted among soldiers in base camps in the US, overseas and in service academies specially the US Air Force Academy.
Now every one in Washington is working overtime and in high gear to prove that Major Nidal Hasan is an Islamic terrorist driven by hate of the US and its democratic institutions and culture. Nothing more will please the Zionist Jewish leadership than to prove Major Hasan is an Islamic extremist like all Muslims and Arab Americans in the United States simply "must be" in their eyes.
Of course the history of the US is full of many Nidal Hasans. Men who simply went “Postal” killing and maiming many fellow workers and students or simply killings. Major Hasan joins Jiverly Wong who killed 11 in an immigration center in Binghamton, New York. Steven Kazmiercsak opened fired at North Illinois University in DeKalb killing 5 and wounding 18. Robert Hawkins opened fire in Omaha Westroads mall killing 8 and wounding 5. Cho Seung-Hui shot 32 fellow students at Virginian Tech. Sulejman Talovic killed 5 and wounded 4 at Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City. Charles Cord Roberts IV shot to death 5 girls at West Nicke Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania. Jeffery Weise killed 9 people including his grandparents in Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minnesota. Terry Ratzman opened fire at his congregation killing 7 and wounding 4 at Brookfield Sheraton, in Brookfield, Wisconsin. Mark Banton killed 9 people in an Atlanta brokerage firm, Andrew Golden; Mitchell Johnson killed 4 girls and wounded 10 in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Eric Harris, Dylon Klebold opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado killing 12 and wounding 26. George Hennard rammed his pick-up truck into Luby’s Cafeteria and then open fired killing 22 and wounding 22 in Killeen, Texas and of course so many of us remember Charles Whitman who mounted the University Tower at University of Texas-Austin killing 14 and wounding 32. Of course the US Postal Service gets the worse fame and wrongly defamed with 40 killed in 20 incidents of employees going “postal”.
The faith of these all of killers and murderers was never an issue, the racial origin of all of these was never an issue, and the political motives of all of these were never an issue. Only Major Hasan's faith and ethnic background is made into a central issue. None of the families of these killers and murders had to say, “we love America” to fend off anger and outrage, not even the Korean community where the killer at Virginian Tech was of Korean origin. Only Major Hasan is subject to microscopic scrutiny because of his faith.
I do not know Major Hasan, never knew there was a major in the Hasan family, and do not know his political and moral views on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and on the “war on terror”. However all of this could never justify killing and murdering fellow soldiers in cold blood. Soldiers expect to face death in the battlefield but not face death by fellow soldiers throwing hand grenades in tents as happened in Vietnam, nor face death at a base camp by fellow soldier.
I do not make any excuses and never could justify such a cold-blooded murder committed by anyone. However, what I object to are hate-filled statements by the likes of Senator/Rabbi Joseph Lieberman whose statements are fighting words directed toward Arabs and Muslims in the US.
(also worth adding is the comment by Jeff Blankfort to this article here: http://www.jeffersoncorner.com/major-nidal-hasan-and-rabbisenator-joseph-lieberman/)
Jeff Blankfort :
Sami,
The Fort Hood killing spree of Maj. Hasan was a tragedy with many dimensions but for the Zionists and their chickenhawk allies who never even tried on a military uniform, it couldn’t have come at a better time.
That being said, there is a massacre of such and even greater proportions of Muslims taking place in Afghanistan, Pakistan and/or Iraq, virtually every day, all of them having their origin in US imperialist policies and those of their Zionist allies to which few in the US without connections to the region or to Islam pay any attention.
Sami Jamil Jadallah is Palestinian-American born in El-Bireh, Palestine, an international business and legal consultant, and a veteran of the US Army. His comments are posted at his website http://www.jeffersoncorner.com.
Email this author | All posts by Sami Jamil Jadallah
So the author of this article is "an international business and legal consultant, and a veteran of the US Army." He also, apparently without any sense of shame, says that he is "a former soldier and a veteran of US Army (66-68) with four other brothers (Nabil- US Army-Lifer, Lutfi-US Marines, Suleiman-US Army and Taiseer-US Marines) with two nephews Aaron and Jamil currently serving in the US Army, …"
He also says, "The US Army today is not the same army when we served back in the late 60’s and early 70’s." That's quite true, but one difference he doesn't mention that in those days, before the introduction of the all-mercenary army, many soldiers knew how to deal with gung-ho officers. It was called 'fragging' and it helped eliminate at least a few hundred officers from the Yankee imperialist army and, more importantly, educated thousands of other officers in the necessity of allowing their troops to avoid combat situations.
Unlike the execrable character who wrote the above article, Major Nidal Malik Hasan finally "snapped" out of the trance that allowed him to serve in the imperialist military that was and is slaughtering his fellow Arabs and Muslims. Moreover, he took action to weaken and demoralize that military.
While we leftists may regret that Major Hasan didn't target higher-up persons responsible for U.S. imperialist warmaking, his action is nevertheless entirely supportable.
Incidentally, it's a nice coincidence that the only previous person to take heroic anti-imperialist action inside the U.S. killitary in this new millenium was also named Hasan — Sgt. Hasan Akbar. Unlike Major Hasan, brother Akbar is an African American whose mother converted to Islam when he was a child. Also unlike Major Hasan, he went out of his way to attack the tent of the highest-ranking officers on his base in Kuwait, killing (only, unfortunately) two and injuring about a dozen.
Note to Jeff Blankfort: If we're concerned about the use of this action by ZioNazis and their Shabbas goyim to increase anti-Muslim and/or anti-Arab sentiment among AmeriKKKans, the best way to counter that is for non-Muslims and non-Arabs, and especially ethnic Jews like you and me, to loudly proclaim our support for such actions. I've been doing that; you, however, are doing the opposite.
To Aaron Aarons. Yes, I have no sense of shame, in fact I am very proud to have served in my country’s army, the US Army and yes, all of us brothers are very proud to have served the country that gave us home, gave citizenship and gave us a place in the sun. And If I was in the army today, be sure I will be one of the first to volunteer and fight Alqaida and Taliban’s. Do not allow these misfits, illiterate and criminal confuse you with their message of “Jihad”. These people killers and murderers of Muslims are criminals and do not represent Islam. Perhaps it would do you some good to read instructions of Khalifa Abu-Bakr to his soldiers as they went about spreading the faith. Muslim worriers unlike worriers of the time did not commit the kind of crimes committed today by those who call themselves “Islamic Jihadists”. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan to see that more than 80% of the casualties are attributed and are committed not by American soldiers but my Taliban and “Jihadists”. If Taliban’s is your ideal of a “Muslim” then count me out of your “Umma”. If Islamist Jihadists, terrorists and suicide bombers are your ideal Muslims then count me out of your “Umma". My Umma are the people who spread the faith, who incorporated the culture of so many nations and people into one unique and glorious culture that gave us knowledge, gave us science, medicine, astronomy, algebra, geometry, navigation, poetry, literature , architect, my Umma built great civilization. They were not killers and murders who failed to build a hospital or a school or even a bakery. Yes, I am very proud of who I am as an American and as a Muslim and yes as a veteran of the US Army. Of course I could never find justifications for the criminal war of George Bush on Iraq and his crusade and his war on terrorism. My Umma is not made up of ignorant people, killers and murders who masquerade as Muslims. What Major Nidal Hasan did is wrong, morally, legally and ethically wrong and there is simply no justification for it Allah or No Allah.
AaronAarons: I do not need the support of Jews like you nor do we need the support of the KKK because they hate Jews. I have no place for people like you, even if they are able to liberate all of Palestine. We need partners who believe in our just and fair cause. David Duke is no friend of mine and that goes for you too.
Mr. jadallah,
You served in the United Snakes Killitary when it was slaughtering a few million people in Southeast Asia and leaving those countries ecologically devastated. And presumably you were NOT one of the people who rebelled within that Killitary, either. There were no 'Jihadists' there, so what was your excuse for participating in the killing of those people?
The very country that was most responsible for enabling the creation of IsraHell and the violent expulsion of the majority of the Palestinian people from their homes and lands also, for whatever reason, "gave [your family] home, gave citizenship and gave [your family] a place in the sun." In other words, you and your family sold out to the enemies of the Palestinian people for your own personal benefit, just as people like Abbas, Dahlan and most of the mainstream Palestinian leadership have done.
I expect that most SECULAR Palestinians and Iraqis, and most SECULAR Arab nationalists — left, right, or 'center' — would be closer to me on these issues than to a servant of imperialism like you.
Again, Shame on You!
Yes, I am secular in my political views, secular in my vision of the world, and yes, I am a practicing Muslim in every word and I do not see any problem with that. I think it will do Aaron lots of good before he and the others try to fix our problem to solve their own problem since the American Jewish leaders and I dare say with the active support of the American Jewish community are the ones who are standing in the way of peace, are the ones who hijacked the US independence and free will, are the ones that support and fund Jewish settler terrorists and of course let us not forget the key role this leadership and community played in George Bush war on Iraq. I think it will do Aaron lots of good to fix his community which lost its moral and ethical compass when it shifted from Judaism to Zionism. And yes, I have no sense of shame, because there is simply nothing to be ashamed of.
I am of Jewish ethnicity, but the American Jewish community is not my community any more than the United States is my country. I feel no loyalty to either one.
I agree that the American Jewish community, infected with Jewish chauvinism and under the leadership of Zionist banksters, is largely responsible for the fact that the violence of United Snakes imperialism has been focused so much against Arabs and Muslims in recent years, although there are certainly geopolitical reasons as well for this focus. But the American Jewish community, such as it was, was hardly primarily responsible for the extermination of native Americans, the genocide in the Philippines, the various invasions of other countries before World War II, the genocides in Korea and Southeast Asia, etc., although Jewish capitalists shared responsibility with gentile capitalists for these crimes. Moreover, if the U.S. killitary wasn't busy slaughtering people in South and Southwest Asia, it would probably be slaughtering people in Latin America instead, and your brothers and/or your nephews, probably with your support, would be taking part in that slaughter.
You are a United States patriot and patriotism in an imperialist country is support for imperialism. My motto is, "Treason to 'America' is loyalty to humanity." The same motto is valid, of course, with 'America' replaced by 'Israel'.
Aaron, I agree with you about the role of the US military which has not engaged in any exercise defending the Uniited States, technically, since the war of 1812, Hawail's Pearl Harbor being part of an island chain that had been seized as part of America's colonial expansion in the 19th century. That being said, in the real world, in which, as far as I have known and observed you–about 41 years– you have been given a pass and never been required to work or to make the real-life decisions that others have and your political behavior over those years and your total lack of effectiveness reflects that as do your callous comments supporting the actions of Major Hasan.
When I first witnessed your disruptive behavior back in the 60s I thought you and many of your colleagues in the Spartacist League were agent provocateurs, but over the years I came to realize that you were just another frustrated soul, a comic caricature of Fox News concept of a "Leftist" and as alienated from his neighbors and his fellow human beings as Hasan was at the time of the shootings. With your ridiculous comments you certainly do nothing to help the Palestinians and continue to behave as would an agent provocateur.
Sami, I support neither Al Queda nor the Taliban, neither of which would exist without the furtherance of US imperial policies but no US soldier has ANY justification being in Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan, fighting them. It doesn't matter whether the soldiers realize it or not, the US does not give a damn for the lives of anyone in those countries who does not serve US interests and the soldiers serving over there are at best "useful idiots" in a disastrous, murderous US enterprise that has totally destabilized the region that will last for decades. But they are no less killers, as well. That is, after all, what they have been trained to do. And an occupied people will resist and they have justice on their side in doing so whether or not we agree with their politics or religion.
There is no reason to be proud of wearing the US military uniform, which I wore for two years in the 50s, because the US military exists, as Gen. Smedley Butler once said, as the enforcer of US imperialism. That Americans who wear the uniform and do so proudly are not aware of that history is the fault of our pathetic school system but it does not change the facts of history. I also have seen, in Lebanon in 1983, what the US military thinks about Muslims or Arabs in general. The terms the Marines used was "towel-heads," "sand niggers" and "camel jockeys." This was before the Marine barracks were bombed but the brain-washing of the US military had already taken its toll of their minds. Without such brain-washing, America would not have "the strongest army in the world." The Marines and those in the military who are indoctrinated in such racism are victims in a different way and those who follow them will continue to be so until we challenge the military mentality that has bankrupted this country both financially and morally.
BTW, Mr. Jadallah, you didn't respond to any of the points I raised. Instead you reply with basically racist arguments that, because I was born into 'the American Jewish community', I'm somehow responsible for the actions of that community. But I didn't voluntarily join that community, and I am not in any meaningful way a part of it, while you did, presumably voluntarily, join the U.S. military and you continue to support it, so you are responsible for the actions of THAT community.
How about responding to this question that I posed above:
> You served in the United Snakes Killitary when it was slaughtering a few million people in Southeast Asia and leaving those countries ecologically devastated. And presumably you were NOT one of the people who rebelled within that Killitary, either. There were no 'Jihadists' there, so what was your excuse for participating in the killing of those people?
Jeff.. The United States engaged in one just war since last century…I would say WWII where we defeated Nazi Germany and Hitler and were we defeated Imperial Japan with similar engagements as that of Germany with the exception it prosecuted every one. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are imperial wars and not “just” war to bring about freedoms and liberty. I agree with pursuing the war on Alqaida as the enemy of the US that killed so many innocent people, inside and outside the US. Yes, I had a choice and I chose to serve and I am proud to have served and have no regrets.
As for Aaron, who are you to demand that I answer your questions. I was very clear in my answers and response and I have no time to waste with you. I do not care what you think, what are your views? Go do some good like volunteer in a soup kitchen.
Sami, Members of my family and friends served in WW 2 which I long considered "the good war" and the defeat of Nazi Germany, in which the Russians were far more instrumental than was the US, was important, but as later facts revealed, the US was pushing to get into the war, provoking Japan (whose hands were already bloodied in China) to attack us. That war not only pulled the US out of a depression it set US on the path to becoming a despotic global empire with 730 bases in 130 countries in which the peoples of those countries had no say about it.
The US military has furthermore engaged in the training of its counterparts in Latin America and Africa whose job is to protect US corporate and imperial interests and suppress their fellow citizens in those regions and quite rightfully has produced hatred of the US government if not of its people who have allowed it to happen, with the exception of Vietnam, with little more than a whimper.
Having served for two years in the army as a draftee between the Korean and Vietnam wars, I know the experience of male bonding that it develops and which is essential to make it an efficient killing machine. Using newer psy/ops and only volunteers they have made it even more effective in enforcing unit cohesion. That those serving in it can display both bravery and self-sacrifice as certain friends of mine have makes it no less an instrumental of evil, if you will, in a world that already suffers from too much of it without US assistance.
In Beirut, one day, I had a reason to go to the temporary US embassy, the original having been blown up earlier in the year,and was sitting in a chair on a row of them reserved for US citizens. Across from me was a Lebanese man,about 40 years of age,sitting on a row reserved for Lebanese and other non-Americans. Between us was a young Marine, about 21 or so, and he spoke to the Lebanese man as if he was an animal, and I called him on it so fast that his face grew red up into his ears. That Marine was no different from his Israeli counterpart. Did he deserve any different treatment because he was an American? Outside the embassy other Marines shouted at Lebanese who were waiting for visas in much the same way. What right had these Marines to do that, or even be there in the first place?
What is interesting is that the Marines and the army unit that was there training the Lebanese army were restricted to their barracks, unlike the French and Italian units who were also there. Why? Because the American soldiers do not know how to behave in a country where the inhabitants are not white and the French and Italians, despite their own colonials pasts, do. One sergeant who did get off the base, pulled out his pistol after getting drunk and shot up the bar at the Commodore Hotel.
They weren't all like that, of course. One Mexican-American Marine I met, who drove me around the base, told me he was a subscriber to Mother Jones (whose press letter I carried). When I asked what he was doing in the Marines, he replied that he wanted to get out of San Benito, Texas, and that was the only way he could afford to do it. Attention, Aaron: that's a reason many, if not most of the men in the service who come from small towns (which you've never visited, Aaron) join in the first place.
Walking around what remained of the barracks after the bombing (Yeah, Aaron, I know you cheered the news and pumped your first a couple of times) while they were still pulling out the bodies, pieces of letters from home and family photos hung from the trees or littered the ground. I was angry but not at the Marines but those who had sent them there. These guys had no idea why they were there and probably couldn't have found Lebanon on a map.Unless one has witnessed the aftermath of such a bombing (which now, thanks to the US, is a daily occurence in Iraq, Aghanistan and Pakistan) one has no idea of what it is like. When I arrived at the edge of the base shortly after the bombing, a black Marine on guard duty told me that the number of dead had been over 400 since the official count did not include sailors from the USS New Jersey or soldiers from the army unit who had been partying overnight there. Two days later, the Marine and I saw one another as he was standing on the other side of the fence around the ruins of the barracks and he gave me a thumbs up which I returned. Sorry about that Aaron. But he was a fellow human being. That's something you will never understand.
Now, with the Israelis it was different. They knew why they were in Lebanon and everyone had participated to some degree or another in the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. So when Hezbollah blew up their intelligence headquarters in Tyre a month later, not only did I celebrate but so did many of the non-American Western press who had seen the Israeli soldiers for what they were and are, a bunch of racist thugs. I already had that opinion before one fired a shot at me that creased my hair after I had taken his photograph.
Jeff Blankfort writes: That being said, in the real world, in which, as far as I have known and observed you–about 41 years– you have been given a pass and never been required to work or to make the real-life decisions that others have [...]
AA: Not having to work doesn't insulate me from having to make real-life decisions.
JB: [...] and your political behavior over those years and your total lack of effectiveness [...]
AA: Please explain and describe how you measure "effectiveness", Jeff. Or are we supposed to accept your judgements of same on faith?
JB: [...] reflects that as do your callous comments supporting the actions of Major Hasan.
AA: I don't think you would have complained that my comments were "callous" if I were supporting someone who had killed a bunch of ISRAELI soldiers. This is another manifestation of the difference we have had for a while regarding your catering to U.S. nationalism, as one can see from this exchange on indybay that we had in early 2003, and that I recently added to. It's at:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2003/01/19/15623441.php
JB: When I first witnessed your disruptive behavior back in the 60s I thought you and many of your colleagues in the Spartacist League were agent provocateurs, but over the years I came to realize that you were just another frustrated soul, a comic caricature of Fox News concept of a "Leftist" and as alienated from his neighbors and his fellow human beings as Hasan was at the time of the shootings. With your ridiculous comments you certainly do nothing to help the Palestinians and continue to behave as would an agent provocateur.
AA: So you combine psychologizing with a backhanded form of agent-baiting. But Stalinists and other centrists and reformists who feel threatened by principled leftists often engage in such agent-baiting, so I'm not surprised.
Living in a settler-colonial imperialist country whose white population, including me, has lived off the exploitation of the rest of humanity, I make no apologies for being alienated from the majority of citizens of that country. I consider that a virtue, not a fault. OTOH, I have met many human beings, some even from here in the U.S., from whom I don't feel alienated, even though I'm somewhat of a left-brain type, and maybe even slightly autistic, and I'm a very incompetent liar, so I don't interact with people as easily and smoothly as many people do. But if you think that invalidates my political positions, then maybe you get you model your standards of political behavior on used-car salesmen
I'm sorry to have to put you down, since I appreciate most of your work and certainly don't dislike you, but you really asked for it here.
BTW, Jeff, I would bet that, even though Palestinians, Iraqis and other Arabs living in the U.S. or U.S.-allied countries wouldn't risk saying so in public, many, if not most, of them are glad that somebody like me who is not Arab or Muslim says what they think and feel about the killing and injuring of soldiers who would otherwise be on their way, literally, to killing Arabs and Muslims.
Thanks Jeff. Yes America did well to enter the war and liberate Western Europe and bring an end to the Nazi rule. I think the American soldiers in those days where the “good Americans” not the Ugly Americans of Central America and South East Asia. I know too well the Vietnam War and know too well the first casualty in my hometown of Gary, Indiana, and Richard McGee, the brother of a girl friend of mine. I knew Jack Nurse one of my classmates who were the first to die in the Vietnam War. The War became unpopular when the deferment for the rich kids were cancelled and when the rich kids and college kids were drafted and started to die, all of a sudden the War became immoral and just war with demonstrations all over the US. Yes, the US engaged in its war in Central and Latin America where the School of the American at Ft. Benning, GA was the training ground of the military terrorists and assassins who killed hundreds of thousands of Latin America in San Salvador, Guatemala, not to mention Chile and Argentina. No one should make the Pentagon as an Angle Nest, it was run by guys who feared no God and who were so gun ho willing to kill and murder, train to kill and murder in the name of fighting Communism. I still remember the words of the late General William Westmorland when he declared in an interview that the Vietnamese do not value life and they know how to die. Such a disgusting racists statements, the same statement made by Israelis today. However there are lots of good decent people in the US military who are only doing their job as professional soldiers and who are not driven by ideology or faith. They are professionals. However when you see documentaries on how Evangelical Christians hijacked the US Army and how they are building a team of Crusaders not professional US soldiers one should worry. It is time for the top brass in the US military to put an end to all of this… This Crusading Army will one day be the biggest threat against America and our own system of government. It is not the Islamist I worry about, it is these tens of thousands of soldiers who are bumped with “Christian Faith and Muslims Hate” that I worry and fear, not for me but for the country. Reagan and an alliance of Evangelical Christians and Zionist conspire on the US and gave us the Right Nation for over 30 years and we see the result. This times with a well-trained hundreds of thousands, with tens of millions of fire arms in homes and cars and in the hands of these guys, the nation and our democracy is in grave danger.
"However there are lots of good decent people in the US military who are only doing their job as professional soldiers and who are not driven by ideology or faith."
in the particular linguistic, ethical, moral, and political universe that I live in, you can's believe that "people in the US military who are only doing their job as professional soldiers" are "good decent people" if the job they're doing is not 'good' and 'decent', however you define those words. Being a professional soldier doesn't relieve you of one bit of responsibility for what you do. "I was only following orders" doesn't wash.
Professional soldiers who kill or injure people are just as much criminals as are private persons who kill or injure in similar situations. In fact, professional soldiers are worse, just as a professional boxer who injures or kills someone with a punch is more, not less, criminally liable than an average person who does the same damage to someone he hits.
That said, my support for Major Hasan's action is NOT based on joy in the suffering of his victims, as it would be if he had gone to Arlington or Langley or, even better, Wall Street boardrooms or the senior executive offices of some major arms maker. Rather, I support it as a legitimate preemptive military action against an invading army about to embark.
Aaron, the difference between those American soldiers who were killed at Ft Hood and Israelis are that the latter, every last one (except those who refuse) are and have been willing occupiers and humiliators of the Palestinians for the past four decades. I have seen them in action over a period of 30 years in the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon and would have no trouble picking up a gun against them.
Unlike the geographically, economically and educationally challenged volunteers in the US army, the Israelis know exactly what they are doing and to whom. They have no excuses other than having been brainwashed from birth into a inherently racist, sadistic culture. Since you have never apparently have had to worry about your economics, the idea that a young man or woman would join the military because they either needed a job or couldn't find any other way to go to college would never occur to you, and that believe it or not, thanks to our lousy schools, most really have no idea of what they are getting into, and when they find out, it's too late. That you and I both know what is likely to happen to them is irrelevant.
In 1969, I went for Ramparts magazine to a town of 500 people in Ohio, Bealesville, to interview the parents of five of its sons that had been killed in Vietnam. The town asked the government not to send anymore of their boys to Vietnam since a whole generation was dying off. The government said that was impossible and so I spoke with the sixth son just before he went over there to die as well. In speaking with parents of the boys who died, and that's what they were, boys, in a town in Appalachia with 40% on welfare, all of their parents told me that their sons had written to them saying they were depressed and didn't know why they were over there and the parents didn't know either. Unlike you and I in the Bay Area, in small town Ohio, you don't get the privilege of knowing. One of the dead was the star of the town's sports teams and his parents proudly showed me the trophies won by their only child. They also told me that they didn't give their son a military funeral because in their minds, he didn't die for his country. They were angry with the government with a far deeper anger than you and I felt for that war, but that trip made me empathize with them and the other families all of whom, with the exception of the last, only had a single child. I wrote the story as the families told it to me. I put their opinions, not mine in the article, and what they represented was a town and a people confused, unable to understand what had happened to their sons and to them.
Now, as to you pretend to know what people are thinking in other parts of the world who have been victimized by the US, I will tell you what happened a few years later when I was in Paris and met with a leading North Vietnamese representative to the peace talks. When I was introduced as being from Ramparts, he smiled and told me, without knowing that I had wrote it, that the story about the boys from Bealesville had been the one from that anti-war magazine that impressed him the most. Now I recall that you and your fellow Sparts were against those peace talks. In other words, you and PL, crying "Victory to the Vietcong!" or slogans of that sort, very effective politically NOT in the US, wanted the war to continue to the last Vietnamese or American. Is my memory correct on that?
Aaron, you are considered by every activist I know, with maybe one or two exceptions to be something of a clown, whose actions and statements are as predictable as clockwork, as you stand up at a microphone in an auditorium challenging speaker after speaker, year after year, decade after decade, to agree with your politically inflammatory remarks or standing at a protest with a sign designed to alienate potential allies. But that's not your interest apparently because you don't seem to have any. Not one. Not a sign of political effectiveness, you'll have to admit.
Jeff,
While some of your points are specific enough for me to respond to, there are other things you say, like the last paragraph, that are utterly dishonest attacks invoking the alleged opinions of alleged unknown activists about unspecified activities and statements of mine. This debate is not about me, since I'm not asking people to vote for me, trust me, or follow my leadership. If things I say are wrong, you should be able to demonstrate that on the basis of public information and shared knowledge among those who we are each trying to influence, not on the basis of ad hominem arguments and invocation of what unspecified things unspecified others allegedly think and say about me.
You invoke the favorable opinion of a Vietnamese Stalinist about an article you wrote that didn't, apparently, even express any political position that he could have agreed or disagreed with. So what! As for the peace talks, what I and other revolutionaries condemned was those in the U.S. who called on the imperialists to negotiate, rather than to get out. Doing so undermined opposition to the imperialist war by implying that the imperialists had some right to demand anything of the Vietnamese as a condition of their getting out. I'm reminded of the Bolsheviks' condemnation of the German Social Democrats over the latter's support for the Brest-Litovsk treaty. The Bolsheviks pointed out that they entered into the treaty out of military necessity, but the job of the German left was to denounce the treaty as an imperialist imposition, not to support it.
By the way, your Vietnamese Stalinist buddies had, in 1945 and 1946, slaughtered the leadership of the substantial and important Vietnamese Trotskyist movement, partly because the latter, along with many Vietnamese nationalists, actively opposed the Stalinists' welcoming in the troops of British imperialism — troops that shortly afterwards helped to restore the French colonialists to power in Saigon and elsewhere.
As for my "standing at a protest with a sign designed to alienate potential allies", how about the one I carried at a San Francisco demonstration during the Gaza slaughter? It said, "This Jew says: Every ZioNazi is a Legitimate Military Target." It may have alienated some soft Zionists, but several (at least three) Palestinians came over to thank me for it (several more gave me a thumbs-up or something equivalent) and at least one chose to have his picture taken with me holding that sign. Not one expressed any disapproval.
You, Jeff, are a reformist and I'm a subversive. I don't believe in majoritarian politics in an imperialist settler-colony, be it Israel (where we probably agree!) or the United Snakes of AmeriKKKa. Both of those political-economic-military entities need to be destroyed, along with the capitalist system of which they are the fortresses, for the sake of humanity and the other species that remain on our planet.
Here's a link to Mumia Abu-Jamal's commentary on the Fort Hood action:
http://www.prisonradio.org/audio/mumia/2009MAJ/11Nov09/11-08-09FortHoodMAJA.mp3
Aaron Aarons,
Why do you ignore the context of the agenda of totalitarian communist mass murder and genocide against which the Vietnam war was fought? To be sure, in retrospect, America went to far, made some incredibly stupid decisions, and indeed, should never have entered that particular battle field. The liberal and quasi socialist LBJ was nothing but a dumb hick with pretensions of attaining left-liberal utopia by means of epic cynicism. But the wrongs that America committed do fall under the category of “road to hell paved with do-gooder intentions.”
In contrast, the road to the war against Islam was not paved with good intentions, but rather venal intentions, greedy intentions, and Zionist expansionist intentions. But the Zionist ideology really isn’t that far off the mark from your own; indeed, don’t you Leftists believe that Big Religion is backward, intolerant of Jews and homosexuals, superstitious, and primitive? Haven’t most Zionists always been Jewish socialists? Haven’t they always professed to be bringing enlightenment and modernity to the Levant?
Don’t most Jewish socialists regard Islam the same way they regard Christianity — as a noxious menace — and view "secular" Big Government as a method of Christian and Islamic pest control?
Perhaps your only problem with Israel is the religious Jews. Perhaps Jewish-Lefty bigots should consider the possibility that they have a problem, too. Or perhaps their egos are too big to consider that possibility, being raised to believe they're "the chosen" and all — or do Jewish-Lefty parents use other semantics to get the same message through?
If Jewish bigots would just check their outsized egos at the door, and try to gain some self-awareness of their control-freak tendencies, and could realize that their pseudo-secular power-grabbing ploys have now been identified as the scams they are and give up the ghost, half their problems would disappear, almost instantly.
You all need to adjust to the new, post-Communist reality. Christianity and Islam aint going away any time soon, and certainly not before Judaism. Zionists and Jewish leftists should put an end to that particular fantasy right now.
It is so ironic, even before the completion of all of the investigations, the Zionists together with so called "Islamist Moderates" perhaps allies with these NeoCons Zionists are calling the act of Major Nidal Hassan a terrorists act, simply because the crime was committed by a Muslim. On the other hand, Jihadists are calling this act a Jihad acts committed by a Muslim loyal to the cause of Jihad. I wonder if a murder or criminal act committed by a Muslim, any Muslim will be defined as a simple act of murder without it being a terrorist's act or a act of Jihad. It is well known that people of different faith commit such acts and it is not defined as acts of terrorism. In the US every man is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a COURT OF LAW. Who knows, may be the man just "snapped" may be it was his verdict on the war who knows. Let the investigators do their job, and let us not have a Lieberman or a Bin Laden make the verdict now.
http://exiledonline.com/fort-hood-cover-up-a-dozen-tales-of-disinformation/
that link is interesting… don't know how accurate it is, but it is worth at least a read.
Now, onto matters at hand…. Aaron, knowing that you were in the SYL says so much to me. That is the ultimate hotbed for infiltrates. I would never trust one as far as I could throw one.
Not for me to EVER say "America, love it or leave it", but actually, there are a load of places in the world someone can go to if working is not a problem, so I don't know, Aaron… perhaps you should look into this possiblity rather than looking down your nose at everyone else.
Sami @ 19, agreed!!!
Jeff – this thread is getting too personal. You have been a great influence on me. Aaron is also a good guy, defending me and others against Zio-lefties trying to smear us. Mary – talk of 'agent provocateurs' is never helpful. Aaron's sincerity is unquestionable. http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/08/12/trial-by-indymedia/ – Aaron – you can't expect Palestine Think Tank to be ultra-left. People who served in the Army and think WWII was a good war are going to contribute. I used to be a Marxist too, but concentrating on the most difficult issue in US politics – Israel – has changed me. If American patriotism would lead to breaking from Zionism, I'm tempted to say I support it!
I am not left or right, never subscribed to this ideology since I am both,nor I am secular or religious as I am both. However when it comes to Palestine, I think the Zionist Occupation has to come to end and the Palestinian exiles have to return home. I could never accept the notion that some Jew from Brooklyn is entitled to the land to occupy, to transfer, to exile to uproot, to steal to kill and murder and get away with it simply because he is a Jew. Now you tell me do you want All the Jews to leave? the answer is NO since many or most Israel is the only place they can call home and country. I am for sharing it, but never will concede to the Zionists. As for America, I think in the next decade or so, I think we do need a second revolutionary war, this time to declare our second independence from Zionism. That is why it is necessary for All American Patriots all those who love the country and people to rise up and challenge the supremacy of Zionism in American politics, economics, finance, media and education. It is a cancer that will destroy the moral and ethical fiber of the nation and people. No one will ever convince me that Zionism is liberation of the Jews. I think modern day Zionism has replaced Judaism long time ago. Our mission and dedication should be to the freedom of Palestinians and Israelis.
Jay, I know Aaron is sincere in his beliefs and I ordinarily do not get personal but the internet is a different reality than the streets of Berkeley and San Francisco. It is a place where agent provocateurs have indeed found a home and a legitimacy that was denied them on the street. As I said, I am sure Aaron is not one of them but while he may appear to be a well known Berkeley character whose voice and appearance is known by every one who has attended any political event there and where he is not taken seriously, words on the internet are, by the other side, and used and reused as if they had been written by an agent provocateur. Believe me, there have been plenty around the Bay Area and I exposed several in the 60s. I also used to wonder how these small Trotskyist organizations used to be able to put a newspaper out every week when legit organizations were struggling for money. When I would ask, the answer usually was that someone had a trust fund. Uh huh. There is no question that governments everywhere create oppositional organizations which give the appearance of being more "revolutionary" than the others and those are the ones that need watching, because they are the ones that are used to justify a government crackdown. Anyone can learn to mouth revolutionary slogans.
This site is an important site and I don't want the Zionists to do as they do and pick quotes from a web site exchange that do not represent the site or those who participate on it. And Aaron's comments fit into that category.
To Chris Moore:
Imperialist-capitalist mass murder has easily killed over a billion people, mostly through malnutrition and outright starvation, since the end of World War II. So the fact that Stalinists killed a few tens of millions, including many thousands of my comrades, is important only in that they killed people who could have done a much better job than they did of fighting capitalism and imperialism. One example of that is the killing of Vietnamese Trotskyists by the Vietnamese Stalinists
I defend the right of Moslems, Christians, Jews, Hindus, and others to their religious beliefs and, up to a point, their practices. In fact, I defend them more consistently than most serious believers in any of those religions defend that right for anybody whose religious beliefs differ from theirs, even in small ways.
Most of the early Zionists did call themselves 'socialists', just as the German Nazis did, but in both cases it was a means to harness the socialist idealism of workers and others to a nationalist program where the capitalists were in charge behind the scenes.
BTW, we aren't in a post-communist world. We're either in a pre-communist world, or a global-genocide-by-capital world. It's a choice that will be decided in the next couple of decades, at most.
Sami Jamil Jadallah writes: "In the US every man is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a COURT OF LAW. Who knows, may be the man just "snapped" may be it was his verdict on the war who knows. Let the investigators do their job, and let us not have a Lieberman or a Bin Laden make the verdict now."
"Let the investigators do their job"!!! You have amazing faith in the U.S. "justice" system. Do you think there's a ghost of a chance that they will draw the obvious conclusion, which is that he was reacting to the reports of U.S. war crimes and crimes against humanity that he had been hearing from his patients who had participated in or witnessed those crimes?
I know that it won't fly in a military court, but in the court of international public opinion, his defense — presuming he doesn't deny shooting those people — should be JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE.
Yes, not withstanding the army of Zionist judges and prosecutors within the US judicial system, in the end the jury, men and women representative of the people and community are the one to decide on the issue of facts and evidence. The judges can only rule on the point of law and the law in the US is not biased against Muslims or Jews or Atheists. As such I do have a great faith in the American judicial system which I think is one of the best if not the best in the world. It has the checks and balance that is in our system of government. Even over zealous prosecutors as was the case with Dr. Sami Al-Aryan where the Tampa federal prosecutor flew a plane load of "claimed" Israel victims to Tampa to testify the jury did not by the bullshit. However as it happened the prosecutors to make a name for themselves and to win favors from Zionists financial contributors they file and file again, until they get a convictions on the most trivial point of law. Of the hundreds of cases brought by the Justice Department on "terrorism" cases with public statements by the likes of Bush, Cheney, and Bush two AG, there were few cases of convictions on terrorism charges. As such not withstanding the Muslim hate that fills the Halls of Justice in the US through judges and prosecutors the jury system and our constitutional law is the best guarantees of a fair trial. Yes, I do have faith in the US political and legal system. I think the US Constitution is the best legal instrument ever written by man and I think it stands behind the Torah, Bible and the Quran.
Mary Rizzo on November 12th, 2009 at 13:41:
> Now, onto matters at hand…. Aaron, knowing that you were in the SYL says so much to me. That is the ultimate hotbed for infiltrates. I would never trust one as far as I could throw one.
Mary, every left group in the U.S. has been heavily infiltrated. If it will fit your prejudices even more, I'll tell you that I was one of the founders of the Spartacist League, having been a part of its precursor, the 'Revolutionary Tendency' of the Socialist Workers Party, from June of 1962. I was expelled from the Spartacist League, though, about a month after the September, 1966 founding convention. I was never, BTW, in the Spartacist Youth League (SYL), although I was in a group within SDS called the 'Revolutionary Marxist Caucus' in 1970 and 1971, and I unfortunately helped recruit some Columbia University activists to it. They expelled me, entirely bureaucratically, because they were intending to convert it into the SYL and they couldn't tolerate having me in it.
BTW, some of the best activists, especially here in the SF Bay Area and especially in the ILWU, are ex-members of the Spartacist League and/or present or former members of the Bolshevik Tendency, a group that split off from the Spartacist League about 30 years ago. And I say that these people are "best activists" even though they mostly strongly disagree with my (critical) support for the methods of groups like the Rote Armee Fraktion and the Brigate Rosse.
> Not for me to EVER say "America, love it or leave it", but actually, there are a load of places in the world someone can go to if working is not a problem, so I don't know, Aaron… perhaps you should look into this possiblity rather than looking down your nose at everyone else.
One reason I stay in the United Snakes of AmeriKKKa is precisely because being in the Belly of the Beast is one of the best places from which to subvert it. There are also personal reasons I'm still here, although I do hope to move to South America in the next few years.
And please explain what you mean by "looking down your nose at everyone else"!
By a strange coincidence I attended a meeting of the people in the Bolshevik Tendency whose magazine was and probably still is entitled "1917" (a year they think they are living in) to which Aaron arrived late making profuse apologies. Monty Python and the Holy Grail had not yet been made, but I realized quickly that I was in what could generously be described as a "left lunatic asylum"and I looked for the first chance to make my exit. These folks, all well intentioned, were speaking as if there was a revolution taking or about to take place in the streets of San Francisco, if not the US. It was like being in a church in which you understood what was being said but knew it had nothing to do with the reality anywhere on the planet, least of all in the Bay Area. As for the ILWU, it has so betrayed its history of struggle, that apart from passing meaningless solidarity revolutions or taking an occasional day off to oppose apartheid (in South Africa, not Israel) or the war in Iraq, it is totally absent from the anti-war movement including its marches except for sending a drill team. Some years ago, when I organized a picket of an Israeli Zim Line ship, the workers, ILWU members, had no problem crossing it although they did wave or smile as they walked by.
Well, AA, I'm glad to hear your Communist revolution of one will allow the peons their religion, even if its only "up to a point." That's more than your hero Trotsky, his comrade Stalin and their Jewish Bolshevik henchmen allowed in the Soviet Union. Unfortunately, it still sounds like something that would spring from the mouth of Thomas Friedman or one of the Neocons when holding forth on what should or shouldn't be tolerated out of the Islamic world.
Deep down, you delusional Jewish ideologues really do believe yourselves to be a gift to the gentile peons from the cosmos, don’t you?
Sami, I think you faith in the American judicial system is misplaced. Too often getting justice is determined by the quality of one's lawyer, not what actually occured. When it comes to political issue, justice can be thrown out of the window, although on occasion a jury will throw a wrench in the works. Already, in the case of Maj. Hasan, there have been some strange, conflicting stories circulated on the net, quoting, for example,an officer who had been playing golf on the base and saw someone in a combat uniform with his hands up being arrested and taken away, and even the original communication from the base commander referred to two other persons besides the shooter who had reportedly been killed. It does not stand to reason that in a room filled with trained military personnel, armed or not, that anyone would be able to get as many shots as he was supposed o have done with a 9mm automatic or a 357 magnum revolver. The 9mm would have required a lot of clips and unless he was a trained expert, he would have been taken down between one of the clip loads. The revolver, of course, could not have been reloaded. That takes up too much time. As for ricochets, I can't imagine 9mm and certainly not 357 slugs bouncing off walls. It is quite likely that something considerably different from what we have heard happened there and we are not likely to learn about it. The soldiers who witnessed it have been ordered not to talk about the shooter or shooters,just what happened to them as individuals. This is just as likely to be covered up as was the deaths of the sailors and soldiers at the marine barracks in 1983 who had stayed their overnight in violation of regulations. If you've been in the army, you know that they can give an order swearing everyone to secrecy for the "national good."
Chris, why don't you say something that is relative to this thread?
Would you stay on topic of an ethnic German neo-Nazi was jabbering forth with warmed over fascist rhetoric? Yet some can't understand why ethnic Jewish neo-Bolshevism and Trotskyism grates?
When I was at Indiana University first at as president of the student government 70-71) at the IU Northwest Campus and later in Bloomington as Chairman of the Indiana Student Association (71-72) representing all colleges and universities in the state, I had to deal with these extreme leftists, anarchists, Bolsheviks and Trotskyites and it was never easy. They were like today’s Holocaust deniers and they were like today’s Zionist Jews who simply denies what is going in Israel. The Soviet Union was heaven the Utopia, forgetting the tens of millions of were executed or died or imprisons at the hands of the regime. They were no different from College Republicans and John Birch Societies who were in total denial to what the US was doing in Vietnam and in Latin America, silent about all of the killings, murder and torture that was taking place in Latin and Central America. The Left was totally silent and always defended the Soviet Union with its ethnic cleansing, its Gulags and forced collective farms, KPG and secrete police. The Right was silent about the bombings of civilians over Hanoi and Cambodia and Laos not to mention the crimes taking place in Latin and Central America and now we have Zionist Jews totally silent about what is going in criminal Israel, not only that but they contribute billions to fund to support such crimes and blackmail an entire nation and congress to provide financial, legal and political support for a criminal Israel. There must be something remiss here. What an interesting times. I miss those days.
SJJ: "I had to deal with these extreme leftists, anarchists, Bolsheviks and Trotskyites and it was never easy. [...] The Soviet Union was heaven the Utopia, forgetting the tens of millions of were executed or died or imprisons at the hands of the regime. [...] The Left was totally silent and always defended the Soviet Union with its ethnic cleansing, its Gulags and forced collective farms, KPG and secrete police."
Were you totally clueless even back in the early 1970's, has early senility set in, or a you just a dishonest demagogue? You really think anarchists are or were, in any sense, supporters of the Soviet state and government? And Trotskyists considered the Soviet Union to be 'heaven' or 'Utopia'? Yeah, right! While there were, I'm sure, a whole range of Trotskyist groups where you were, I doubt if even the least critical of them were uncritical of the Soviet regime, and some of them were likely people who denounced the Soviet Union as 'State Capitalist' or worse. There were also, I'm sure, Maoists who supported the Chinese regime and considered the Soviet government to be totally counter-revolutionary.
BTW, how did 'The Left', that diverse phenomenon that you manage to lump into one entity, manage to be "totally silent" and "always defend the Soviet Union"? Did they defend it using sign language?
In the matter of politics apart from the Palestine conflict, you display both woeful ignorance and logical inconsistency.
Sorry, Chris Moore, but I think most of us reject Nazi and fascist rhetoric regardless of the ethnicity of the person spouting it, whether they be Hitler-loving German or Zionist Jews. The only Germans I've had to break with politically in my lifetime are those supporting Israel. I did also, when I was in Germany in the early 1990's, join with Kurds and German leftists in demonstrations against the classical-style Nazis, and for the freedom of Kurdish revolutionaries held by the German state.
Unlike you, I don't care about the ethnicity or 'race' of people I support or oppose, but I don't expect you to understand that.
C.M.: "Yet some can't understand why ethnic Jewish neo-Bolshevism and Trotskyism grates?"
While I'm glad to do anything that grates on you, C.M., I'll point out for those who care that the three countries where Trotskyism developed a mass following were Vietnam, Ceylon, and Bolivia — none of them known for the presence of large numbers of Jews.
Also, when the Trotskyist movement in the U.S., which was the largest at the time outside of Vietnam, split over the question of continued defense of the Soviet Union after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, it was mainly the Jewish sections, under the leadership of Max Schachtman, that left the party and moved towards a 'third-camp' anti-USSR position, which was also the position of the Palestine-born Jewish Trotskyist leader in Britain, Ygael Gluckstein, a.k.a. Tony Cliff. It was gentiles like James P. Cannon and Farrell Dobbs who led the Soviet-defensist faction that supported Trotsky.
Jew boy says:
In the matter of politics apart from the Palestine conflict, you display both woeful ignorance and logical inconsistency.
Now, don't get rude you devil Jew. Sami Jamil has already told you that your support is unwelcome. What a self-deluded fool you are. Chris Moore was right saying:
Deep down, you delusional Jewish ideologues really do believe yourselves to be a gift to the gentile peons from the cosmos, don’t you?
Go and stay with your ilk.
Jay @22, how can I know if Aaron's sincerity is "unquestionable"???? I question the sincerity of everyone I know and surprise surprise, many who I formerly trusted are total snakes in the grass. How shall I react to a stranger? Am I not entitled to consider the SYL as a hotbed of infiltrates because that's what it was used for? You know how it is at Uni. There are those who hand out flyers with "death to capitalism" and then you spend your 50 cents and buy their rag and see photos of them marching proud with baseball bats at some demo. Then you flip another page and see pictures of guys with Stalin t shirts… I mean, this is meant to get the radicals looped into one little spot, especially since they were members of the ISO or something else, and then all the names come out, they believe in "reporting about habits" …. I saw it all and I don't think it's good for the left or for anyone because it is so heavily infiltrated.
Well AaronAarons. I guess ignorance is a blessing at one time or another. I am glad I don’t have the mental capacity or political sophistications to understand and appreciate all the politics of the Left and the Right. All I know is that so many would waste hours in college bars or student lounges talking stupid non sense when so many things were needed on campus that can make life easy for students and give them the kind of support they needed to excel and be productive members of the community. I did not see to many volunteers those days. I think it may do all of us lots of good if activists like you start working on the Jewish community, a community that moved away from so many ideals and commitments such as the Civil Rights, anti-colonialism and became an advocate of war, racism, ethnic cleansing, corruption in government and on Wall Street, fleecing the poor through Bingo Games to fund criminal settlers and land thieves. I would say the Jewish community needs lots of psychological help and healing to join the rest of the world and humanity. I guess Zionism is a cancer that is eating the heart and soul of Judaism. If American Jews think “Muslims” are in need of some fixing, Judaism through Zionism is a hopeless case.
btw, the methods of the Brigate Rosse were stupidity incarnate.
AA: "Unlike you, I don't care about the ethnicity or 'race' of people I support or oppose, but I don't expect you to understand that."
—–
Unlike you, I don't deny that ethnicity plays a role in culture formulation, and culture plays a role in political formulation. Post-Torah, Jewish-supremacist Talmudic culture undoubtedly played a role in the formulation of Bolshevism (see Moses Hess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Hess#Communism ), Zionism, Neoconservatism and Neoliberalism.
I can't say whether this is the case with AA or not, but often out of the imperative of masking his hidden Jewish-supremacist agenda, the (counterfeit) Jewish Leftist will deny and suppress this reality of God-made ethnic and cultural differences (that can theoretically add up to a highly functional whole the same way God-made variegation works in the natural environment) by denying that there is a cosmic God, and turning the totalitarian State (and its Jewish functionaries) into the New God as a means of supplanting the genuine God.
I can see the appeal of this to pseudo-secular Jewish Neocons, Neoliberals, and Zionists, too, given that so many of them are raised to believe that they were once God's medium and stand-in. Milton wrote eloquently on the phenomenon of how this heady role can inspire delusions of grandeur and ultimate group rebellion against God, in Paradise Lost. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost#Synopsis
BTW, I note that Christian Zionists, money worshipping Capitalists, and other contemporary connoisseurs of atheism-materialism (masked and unmasked) are in open rebellion against God, as well. Little wonder these all often rally around the Jewish Zionists. Again, see Milton's chief rebel angel and his henchmen.
Major Hasans disagreement with the Great Satan is understandable. After all, who supplied the kosher rats with all of those 'illegal' white phosphorus, DIME, bunker buster uranium based munitions to massacre some 1,500 Palestinians in Gaza, January/2009 and who is 'running cover' for the Jewish rats, as we speak, if it isn't Obama, Hilliary and the newest, twice-tanned 'racist-in-training' Susan Rice, who sez she is 'offended' by the judge Goldstone Report.
Yes, the attack at Fort Hood was called 'Islamic' terrorism, 'al-Queda returns to the US with a bang?' and many other nasty things…… as for me, after reading about these Fort Hood military killers, rapists, sodomites and torturers that left Iraq 'free men' when they were indeed bonified war criminals and the Pentagon knew it, The ones (including the Haditha murderers) that currently bask in the US as 'patriots.' I am more inclined to call the Major Hasan attack on AmeriKKKa's war criminals: 'POETIC JUSTICE!'
Every dog has his day America – last week was Hasans day!
C'est le Vi!
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
To me, any human who calls-deems self a "jew" is already lying by merely saying that only. The label "jew" has a few symbolic vaues, but it does not symbolize an ethnicity nor nationality.
It mainly symbolizes a connectedness to talmud, torah, zionism [or theft of land], supremacism ['jewish' or cutltish 'values'],usury, unwilingness to work, etc.
And to 'jews', it does symbolize connectedness to hebrew or even other shemites. But only to 'jews' and their [ab]users.
Because of such thinking, i realized long time ago that 'jewish' critics of israel were zionistic; trying to put a human face on it.
Or in other words, turned to be damage controlers, but nevertheless in agreement that palestina must not ever rise again. tnx
It was wrong for hasan to have killed US soldiers. They are almost as much innocent as most US citizens regarding all US/nato crimes.
Japanese, italian, and german soldiers were also innocent. We can put almost all of the blame for US atrocities over the 2 centuries on bible, torah, constitution, and US governance and not on brain-injured victims of that governance or system of rule. tnx
The label "muslim" also represents a fictive reality. This label does not symbolize an ethnicity. To me, it symbolizes belonging to a cult. But the hebraic cult is worse than the christian or moslem cult.
It wld be much better for arabs such as syrians or lebanese to say they are syrians and lebanese before they are muslims, christians, or mosheists.
I wld not appreciate a person who's 99% pole call self a cathalic, or mosheist. However, even the label "arabs" deceives most people.
Not me, tho. I see vast differences btwn yemenis and lebanese, et al. tnx
sami jamil jadallah on November 13th, 2009 at 11:53: Well AaronAarons. I guess ignorance is a blessing at one time or another. I am glad I don’t have the mental capacity or political sophistications to understand and appreciate all the politics of the Left and the Right.
AA: Apparently, your acknowledged lack of mental capacity or political sophistication doesn't keep you from making broad generalizations about a rather diverse group of people, "the Left". Will you have the decency to retract your earlier statements about "the Left" and support for everything about the Soviet Union?
SJJ: All I know is that so many would waste hours in college bars or student lounges talking stupid non sense when so many things were needed on campus that can make life easy for students and give them the kind of support they needed to excel and be productive members of the community. I did not see to many volunteers those days.
AA: So you think that, while the rulers of 'their' country were committing mass murder, it was wrong for people to engage in discussion about how to stop 'their' rulers from committing those crimes? Maybe you think it's wrong for the few Israeli Jewish students who oppose Israel's oppression of the Palestinians to spend time discussing how to fight it. Instead, they should, according to you, be trying to provide to their fellow students the "so many things were needed on campus that can make life easy for students and give them the kind of support they needed to excel and be productive members of the community."
SJJ: I think it may do all of us lots of good if activists like you start working on the Jewish community, a community that moved away from so many ideals and commitments such as the Civil Rights, anti-colonialism and became an advocate of war, racism, ethnic cleansing, corruption in government and on Wall Street, fleecing the poor through Bingo Games to fund criminal settlers and land thieves. I would say the Jewish community needs lots of psychological help and healing to join the rest of the world and humanity. I guess Zionism is a cancer that is eating the heart and soul of Judaism. If American Jews think “Muslims” are in need of some fixing, Judaism through Zionism is a hopeless case.
AA: I'm not part of 'the Jewish community'. But I have helped Jewish leftists I know move to a stronger position against Israel and Zionism, and away from the acceptance of a 'Jewish State' in "'48". More importantly, the fact that "Jews" like me (and more importantly, public figures like Joel Kovel) take strong anti-Zionist stands helps decent "Gentiles" overcome their fear of being seen as "antisemitic" when they take such stands.
Moreover, Sami, you are proud supporter of the armed forces of the U.S. Empire — armed forces that have, either by direct intervention or the threat of same, interfered with the self-governance of well over 100 countries in your lifetime. Such support hardly leaves you on the moral high ground vis-a-vis 'American Jews [who] think “Muslims” are in need of some fixing'! I would say that the loyal population of the United Snakes of AmeriKKKa, along with that of Israel and probably a few other countries, "needs lots of psychological help and healing [and, unfortunately, some 'shock therapy'] to join the rest of the world and humanity."
I am not sure if two individuals, one talking as "jew" and another as "muslim", can talk to each other as human1 and human2 wld talk to each other.
It shld be noted that islam or any 'religion' [cult] always sides with warlords and feaudal lords- ancient and modern.
Sami, it seems to me, supports US crimes against humanities- Aaron does not. Cld their differences in their respective adherence to the two cults cause them to see US differently?
Most children in US and of the cultists have been conditioned just like pavlov's dog. In US kids and adults salivate [so to speak] at mere sight of US flag; mention of the by-now-a-hallowed constitution and its infallibilty,'greatness of america', best jurisprudence, and best ever 'democarcy', etc.
Once the conditioning has been inculculated in every cell of one's body-mind, it can be removed only via deconditioning.
Thus arguing with a 'jew' or mosheist, christian, or muslim is a total waste of time. Words alone cannot ever decondition a fanatic. Deeds, actions, with right words and respect-love hopefully wld 'cure' most semanticly injured people.
Blame, anger, condemnation ?always reinforce childhood conditioning. Hope this clarifies situation!
To Bozhider…..
Innocent US soldiers – an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
No sir, the last American hero's were taken off of Iwo Jima in body bags and since them – talking about Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Guatemala, Panama, Grenada, Honduras, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somolia the world has seen the US soldier as a cold blooded rapist, sodomizer, torturer with a nasty name for everyone – from 'gook' to 'Chink' to 'Hajji' to 'Raghead', et' al.
Google General Antonio Taguba and his report on US murder, torture and massacres of innocents in Iraq. Google US, dioxins, Agent Orange SE Asia; Google "El Mosote village massacres' by the US armed CONTRAS; Google Haditha massacure; Google Fallujah massacres and the use of MK-77 napalm, white phosphorus and DIME weapons in the massacre of 6,000 Iraqi civilians (mostly women and children) and you will discover that the American 'good guys' died on Omaha Beach, the Baatan march in the Phillipines and after that, we have nothing left but racist 'honkies' killing A-rabs' that will murder anyone that is different from them and didn't grow up in the Ozarks and learned about sex from their mothers and/or sisters, etc, etc.
I am building a home near the beach in Costa Rica (A small town named Tamarindo on the pacific coast) and am getting out of this rotten racist country real soon before someone nukes us – for cause! I am ashamed to be called an American (and even as a Latino) I feel uneasy wearing a target on my back everywhere I go from the EU, to Asia, to Latina America and especially the midcontinent and especially the Middle East because I am also called an American.
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
It is so ironic that the “left” and for so many years during the heydays of the former Soviet Unions and its satellite Communist countries was silent as the regimes were committing mass murder, violating the civil and human rights of citizens on a daily basis. The “ Right” also sat in silence as the US engaged in imperialists wars in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and through its proxies was a partners in the crimes committed by regimes such as those of Indonesia, Philippines, Iran of the Shah, Argentina, Chile and all of Central America. The Arab nationalists also sat in silent as regimes such as those of Nasser, Assad, Qaddafi, certainly Saddam, Bashir were committing the worst crimes with Saddam responsible for the death of some million people and Bashir with some 400,000 in Darfur and Kaddafi was knocking civilians airliners out of the air. The Jews sat in silent and enjoyed the show while the Communists were killing, the Americans and their allies were killing, the Arabs were killing each other and of course as if pretending nothing is happening in Palestine they not only sat in silence, but even defended the long historical and daily crimes committed by their Zionist State of Israel. Almost all countries, almost all ethnic and religious groups engaged in war crimes at one time or another. The fault or the tragedy is when we sit in silent not say anything not only about other groups or nations committing such crimes, but when “our” own people and group commit such crimes. The fact that I served in the US Army does not make me a defender of the crimes committed by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is not the military that should be put on trial, it is the civilian leadership that makes the decisions and manages the war. The military is responsible and held liable for crimes and offenses committed by the commanders and the troops when these acts are against the Geneva Convention and against the rules of engagement as defined by international law. The May Lai massacre is one but of these crimes, and there were many, many committed in Iraq by an overzealous commanders and soldiers bumped with rage and hate. However the one army that tops it all is the Israeli Army. It is made up of criminals from top to bottom, all without exceptions are war mongers they simply do not need an order or an excuse they shoot to kill for the fun of it, because the victims are “goyim” gentile and should be killed according to the many Rabbis in the Israeli army. If the Zionist Jews think that Islam has too many “Jihadists” Imams and followers they should think twice and consider the one million-man army of Judaic killers and murderers, equipped with nuclear weapons, and the best military hardware the US, Germany, France and England can supply.
Chris Moore on November 13th, 2009 at 15:09:
[Quoting] AA: "Unlike you, I don't care about the ethnicity or 'race' of people I support or oppose, but I don't expect you to understand that."
—–
[C.M.] Unlike you, I don't deny that ethnicity plays a role in culture formulation, and culture plays a role in political formulation.
No, I don't deny that ethnicity plays a role in culture formulation, and culture plays a role in political formulation, either. But I don't support or oppose people on the basis of what ethnicity helped shape them, but on the basis of where they are now, regardless of what ethnicity or other factors in their formation led them there. I think most Palestinians would agree with me that an ethnic Jew like Barbara Lubin or Joel Kovel (or even Aaron Aarons!) is more on the side of the Palestinian people against their Jewish oppressors than is Mahmoud Abbas, Muhammed Dahlan or Hosmi Mubarak. (But that might be a case of damning us with very faint praise, indeed!)
Aside from this point, C.M., there's no way to have a rational exchange with you when you invoke this "God" character that nobody can know, and that those who claim to know interpret in many different, often contradictory, ways.
Of course if this really were AmeriKKKa we would not have any Jews or Arabs here at all, now would we? Don't understand the benefit of importing all you new people, seems to me that we would be doing alot better if we had never built an empire or imported diversity into a homogeneous nation that was doing just fine on its own.
The AZ,
To me, soldiers are victimized by their rulers. Once young men are sent to war they do get angry, fearful, despondent, hateful, etc.
Some, whether german, japanese,russian,chinese, or american soldiers commit crimes against civilians. However, to me, most young people have been semanticly injured by constitution-interpreters of it. By saying semanticly incapacitated, i mean to say they have been from infancy taught that US constitution is infallible.
And the very constitution, or rather its interpreters, which they honor more than anything else, hurts them once again by sending them to worst hell ever.
Probably 99%+ americans have evaluated what the ruling class says as true. And once americans evaluate as true that america has the right to go to war to enhance its security, greatness; to defend its interests, etc., they even demand US goes to war.
Regardless how guilty or innocent soldiers may be, as long US is ruled by warlords and feudal lords and constitution interpreted by their people, bns of more soldiers and civilians wld die.
While the rich amers get even richer; stronger econo-militarily. tnx
In fact, defense of US interests amounts defense of the top layer's interests. Enhancmenet of US greatness appears as an obvious delusion or illusion or criminal act by the top layer of society and the hallowed US constitution.
Slavery existed along or under the professed holy constitution.
War was fought over slavery. Constitution, eternally true, did not prevent that war nor was it able to free slaves politicly.
After war, blacks wer terrorised for another century or so; lynching, segregation also. All that happened under one and the same constitution. As tabula rasa all children are innocent. Alas, they can be blinded by lies.
So, why flog a blind horse for eating some dung along with some stray. Why blame injuerd americans for eating dung along some meat.
This is also happened to japanese, german, italian, serb, and countless other people and not just americans. tnx
AA: "I don't support or oppose people on the basis of what ethnicity helped shape them, but on the basis of where they are now"
Fair enough. And neither do I. But you have revealed yourself as currently being of the Judeofascist Left. Here is a relevant descriptor of this orientation from my other web site, Judeofascism.com:
**********
What about Zionist and non-Zionist irreligious Jews? Again, irreligious Jewish supporters of the Jewish supremacist program of Palestinian subjugation and disenfranchisement that is inherent to contemporary Zionism would have to fall into the Judeofacist camp by definition. But how about self-identifying left-wing Jews, for instance, who are non-Zionist? Is it possible for them to be Judeofacists even if they profess to be irreligious and opposed to Zionism?
I maintain that it is possible when their political orientation reflects clear latent beliefs in Jewish exceptionalism, and a desire and program to utilize an authoritarian State to impose de facto Jewish exceptionalism upon non-Jews by means, in part, of ethnic racketeering that results in high concentrations of Jewish authorities administering a powerful central government.
Have we encountered such a people before? Indeed we have — in the revolutionary Jewish Bolsheviks, who played a hugely disproportionate role in the Russian coup that led to Communism and later in the Communist hierarchy of the early Soviet Union, as well as the implementation of the systematic Soviet state murder of millions of Christians, peasants, and anti-Communist dissidents…Cont'd
http://www.judeofascism.com/2009/10/refining-definition-of-judeofascism-to.html
**********
So, Aaron, your platitudes about being anti-Zionist and irreligious ring hollow, given the fact that you embrace an authoritarian brand of politics (Socialism/Bolshevism) that has, like Zionism, historically been utilized to assert organized Jewish primacy.
Socialist Moses Hess, whom I cited above, and who was highly influential upon the works of Marx and Engels, also professed to be a post-racial and post-religious Jew, as you do, but quickly reverted to Zionism and anti-German racism as a result of that Gentile people’s resistance to Jewish supremacism and ethnic racketeering, which he correctly sensed would spell trouble for the "socialist" Jewish-supremacist project (which later manifested in Soviet Bolshevism) in the future. Indeed, WWII was fought, in part, as a result of German resistance to Stalinist/Jewish Bolshevik mass murder and totalitarian expansionism.
Authoritarian politics embraced by any Statist Jew, from left-wing (ie Bolshevism) to right-wing (ie Zionism), are an indicator that that Jew in fact has not left his supremacist orientation, authoritarian pretensions, and Jewish delusions of grandeur behind, and remains dangerously murderous and totalitarian, and likely to re-embrace Jewish supremacy at any opportune time, or when he deems it safe to take off the “secular” mask.
Nobody… true you are a Nobody and your post is not worth answering. You have a problem within your community go solve it first. Israel took every thing with the use of terrorism and arms. I stand by every thing I said.
This journalist, Louise Diamond, deserves the award for daring to say what no other journalist has said.
"One recurrent theme in the reporting of the Fort Hood shootings is that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan wanted out of a military that was fighting his co-religionists in Afghanistan and Iraq. If, in some upside-down world, the United States were ever to go to war with Israel, many of us would find it easier to understand if Jewish soldiers had difficulty fulfilling their duties, and would likely make some accommodation for those who conscientiously objected."
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/78829.html
Evidently, according to NPR, it is highly possible that Dr. Hassan called the the Center for Conscience and War
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120354216&ps=rs
I am not sure that children growing up in a culture or ethnic group do not mislearn also. And that mislearning; i.e., evaluating lies as truth does not stay with them even until their grave.
Nowhere is such a phenomeon evident as in US. 98% them just voted for more wars.
So if a russian talks or deals with a chechen or an american is relating to an indian or black, their respective mislearning and ethnocentrisms does affect the relationships and more times negatively than positively.
It affects me a lot when i correspond with a 'jew' or a 'muslim' even tho these two labels do not signify ethnicity. It is worse than that- they actually signify an enormous number of their a priori gathered dogmas; in principle very dangerous and anti human and an impossibility of ever obtaining an understanding with such people.
tnx
Sami Jamil Jadallah (#50):
> It is so ironic that the “left” and for so many years during the heydays of the former Soviet Unions and its satellite Communist countries was silent as the regimes were committing mass murder, violating the civil and human rights of citizens on a daily basis.
AA responds: Sami, you are repeating here essentially the same false generalization about 'the “left”' that you made in post #33 and that I responded to in #34. You chose to ignore my criticism and essentially repeat yourself.
Although I agree with many of the other statements you made in #50, it seems like a waste of time to try to get into a discussion about anything i disagree with, including the Zionist lie about Bashir being responsible for the killing of 400,000 people in Darfur.
More importantly, your absolution of the members and officers of the U.S. imperialist military for responsibility of the crimes of that military seems to be an attempt at self-absolution. According to your own capsule bio, you were "drafted into the US Army ( 66-68) [and] received the Leadership Award from the US 6th Army NCO Academy in Ft. Lewis, Washington." While you certainly can't be blamed for being drafted, nobody forced you to attend an NCO academy AND do whatever it took too receive "the Leadership Award" at a time when HONORABLE U.S. soldiers were in virtual rebellion against that military.
Re Chris Moore #55
Mr. Moore should perhaps be congratulated for getting through a post of a couple of hundred words without the word "God" being one of those words. But he reveals another, rather ugly, side of his ideology when he writes:
> Indeed, WWII was fought, in part, as a result of German resistance to Stalinist/Jewish Bolshevik mass murder and totalitarian expansionism.
So now we have an open Nazi apologist! Apparently, Germany's 'drang nach osten' had nothing to do with the desire for "lebensraum" and Slavic labor, nor the fact that German imperialism had been locked out of most of the rest of the world by Western European colonialism and U.S. neo-colonialism. Really!
I know, for me to make such arguments proves that I'm a materialistic Jew who's in rebellion against "God". But if your "God" is omnipotent, he/she/it must want me to be "in rebellion against" him/her/it, so I must be doing "God"'s work, as every being in the universe also must! But such logical inconsistency is par for the course among believers and racist bigots, both groups of which Oberhelfer Moore is a proud member.
[self-described] nobody (#53):
> American Army is responsible, directly and indirectly to the death of over two million Iraqis, torture of thousands of Iraqis, displacement of over two millions Iraqis, complete destruction of ancient peoples, living in Mesopotamia since the beginning of the Summer civilization, bringing the Assyrian Christian people to the brink of extinction, this people being the descendants of the ancient Assyrian Empire, destruction of natural resources, archeology, etc. etc. The list is long.
AA: Given that the Israel Lobby has been the main promoter of war, sanctions, war again, and occupation of Iraq, it is heartening to see a Zionist describe and condemn the results of that Lobby's work.
> How many Arab women were raped by Israeli soldiers!? Haven't heard of a single incident where a Jewish soldier raped an Arab woman.
AA: In the 1948 ethnic cleansing of Palestine, Jewish soldiers did rape Arab women on numerous occasions, partly as a form of terrorism and partly for the same reasons soldiers commit rape in all wars, and many men do so at other times. But that was when the Zionists were more secular, and their anti-Arab racism was more pragmatic than ideological. Nowadays, most Israeli soldiers have been taught to believe that Arabs (and "goyim" in general) are non-human animals, so that raping them would be no more socially acceptable in that milieu than would be raping a pig or a cow. Killing them for sport, however, is quite acceptable.
> Do you know how many Iraqi women were raped by American soldiers in the most brutal way. Go and figure out how many of your country men raped small children. Show me one instance of Israeli soldier raping a small child, and then murdering her and her family. This was done by American soldiers, not Israelis.
AA: My immediately preceding comments apply here.
> It was you, who blamed, justly, the death of Palestinian civilians on Hamas. Your words are well-documented, as the words of others such as the mutant Aaron Aarons.
AA: If Sami did blame Hamas for the death of Palestinian civilians, beyond the small number they may have killed in their battle with Abbas, Dahlan and the ultra-corrupt 'Palestinian Authority', then he is wrong. and which words of my "mutant" self are you referring to?
> From my surfing the Internet as of late I can tell you that the impression conveyed by what I have read is that if another terrorist attack on the American land takes place, your lot is going to be very gloomy, to say the least.
AA: From what you, 'nobody', wrote (truthfully) about what the United Snakes has done to Iraq, wouldn't attacks on any U.S. target having anything to do with enabling such crimes be justified? Of course, we might get another Zionist false-flag operation like 9-11 to create hysteria even among innocent U.S. persons (there are at least a few tens of millions of the latter, not even counting children) and not just the deserving criminals. The latter, especially the important ones like war industry executives, should have to worry that every time they open a door, there might be somebody there with a loaded gun ready for them.
Mary Rizzo @38:
>Jay @22, how can I know if Aaron's sincerity is "unquestionable"????
You are right, Mary! You cannot know anything about my sincerity. But this is a public political discussion, not a secret discussion to decide whether or not to admit me into a clandestine political organization. Deal with my arguments, if you can, rather than joining Jeff Blankfort in ad-hominem attacks!
The rest of your comment @38 is as incoherent as is Sami's repeated attack on the left. When you make accusations against the left, please have the integrity to say whom you are accusing of what? Given that lack of coherence, the only point I find easy to respond to is your apparent objection to people "marching proud with baseball bats at some demo". If those baseball bats were meant for a possible confrontation with Klansmen, neo-Nazis, the Minutemen, the JDL, or other racists and fascists, I'd say they were a good thing. But since you give no specifics about that or anything else in that little rant, how can I know what you are referring to.
Incidentally, Mary, I notice that you have started moderating comments before they are posted. This is fine, so long as you are open about what you are filtering out and why.
Every nation has its murderus psychopatic killers that 'thrill' on spilling other people's guts.
The Germans killers were called Nazi's
In Israel the killers are called 'Sabra's' or (Kahzars) Ashkanazi's.
But, in the US they are called 'patriots.'
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
Thought of the day: What does the death of those 'patriots' at Fort Hood a few dayze ago represent to the Islamic people? About 240 Arab men, woman or children that won't be slaughtered, raped, sodomized or tortured in Afghanistan.
Re Aaron Aarons, #60,
There would have been no Nazi Germany but for Stalinist,/Jewish Bolshevik State organized and engineered Communist mass murder that preceded it, set precedents, and inspired the Nazi anti-thesis.
Nazi Germany and the Holocaust…yet another tragic and sadistic phenomenon that can be laid at the feet of Judeofascists and their sick, demented, and Godless collaborators.
Aaron, so many questions!
first re moderation: as you can probably imagine we get about 100 to 300 comments a day here. Half of them are Spam, and the other half are not. Those that are not sometimes are death threats, or they are extreme in ways that might close down the site. A few are personal notes to me. If I were to turn off moderation (it's automatic) the comments would be UNUSABLE or unreadable. I save you time by deleting stuff prior to it appearing if it has to be deleted later.
If you change your IP number, your address or user name, the moderation machine treats you like a new entry, and ALL new entries must be moderated the first time. I leave the moderation on also because I am not living on the computer. Some days I don't even turn it on. Haitham does not moderate because he has more kids than I do and we have to assign tasks according to our time.
Now, about the Baseball bats. I have never seen Klansmen in a demo, personally, or Nazis, and I was living in Chicago the time when the Skokie stuff happened (if you saw The Blues Brothers, you understand) and that was about as "rough" as it ever gets…. 60 year old women screaming at the ACLU people and a few others who are surrounded by cops. No one should be banged on the head because they have a different point of view, or you, who detest the military haven't gotten that concept clear? If you are walking around with a "weapon" you either look like a fool or you will be photographed and monitored. I don't like either of these things, and has a bat ever resolved anything on the street? It's idiotic.
About the SYL… let me tell you! I was living with people who were the head of a group called the ISO, one of them now is the editor of the Socialist Worker, to be clear. Obviously, our place was a meeting place for people from all around the world who were passing through Chicago. Of course, you have hundreds of people pass through your home in a given year, and you hear all the stories. I was not personally involved in any party, but my close friends who weren't in the ISO were in INCAR, linked to some other group, can't remember which. I painted banners for them sometimes, but was always outside every group, not officially in any, but friends with many. I heard many stories about the infiltrates, and how they asked for reports of who met with whom, what their habits were, yes, even what courses they followed. I myself was hit by a recruiter (govt) whom it was pointed out to me was "selling the rag" a few months back, who asked about my interest in languages, how would he even know that?… and even about my father's Union affiliations… (he was a steward)…. so, they know things about you because that is what they do… find the most radical of the radical and then weed out everyone and do their things. If you don't know about it, I am shocked.
one comment, if we can get the topic back on track, that would be good.
I think that the essence of the situation is that the perpetrator of the crime is being scrutinised in such a way for two reasons: 1) that he was Muslim/Arab/Palestinian and 2) that there is no way to verify what is in the mind of a person who is about to leave for the front and anyone who knows anything is bound by military law in any comment or view they will express. This leaves the mass media capable of doing with it what they choose to do, and then it is down to us to call the media on this unfair and sensationalist way of treating a situation.
@ Bozhidar
America is a Zionist Occupied Government and is a tool of Israel. We went to war with Saddam at the behest of the Saudis and the Israelis who were threatened by Saddam. Saddam was a bastard and a mass murderer, but honestly he was not and never could have been a threat to America. Because were a a Government controlled by Israel we were targeted for terrorist attacks. Had we minded our own business a long time ago, stayed out of foriegn entanglements and sought trade and friendship with all, then we would not be in this position.
The Palestinian/Israeli conflict could be settled in no time if our "leaders" were not controlled by Zionist swine. Simply make a fair settlement to the Palestinians, and tell Israel the way that it is, and if they do not like it start bombing their settlements in Israeli territory. That would earn the respect of the World and show everyone that America is tough but fair, and plays an even hand with "friend" and foe a like.
(edited by moderator)
I am so glad and happy that there are so many feed back. I think it says a lot and says good thing about the participants. Glad to read such a diverse opinions, such debate, such feed back. At least people are writing and arguing and are not shooting each other. So thankful for the internet that it allowed different voices to be within reach of millions around the globe. As a law student and a student of constitutional law, I always thought that limitations on the right to exercise free speech did not come from government, but came from powerful, and to an extend ideologically driven media like the Washington Post and the New York Times, where a letter to the editor from some one who is taking the other side of the Arab-Israeli conflict will never see the day, while letters in support of Israel are published within hours of a certain event. I kept copies of hundreds of such letters that were never published. Thanks to the Internet, powerful media organizations no longer can control the debate, yet of course they remain powerful in shaping the debate. One need not forget the role of the media in US War against Iraq. The media was as much excited about the war, as the White House. You wonder why? I too wonder if the war was not directed or against an Arab or a Muslim country, will the media be part of this war or not? Thanks to all for your input and feed back. never feel offended when there is a disagreement. thanks to all.
Nobody; you don't know what spam is? stuff like cicalis or computer generated stuff. Sometimes I delete you or don't let you through because you come out with these "you lying Pig" things… so, that makes me decide what step to take. I am always ready to amend a previous decision. Sure, this web site is Pro-israeli if you say it is. You are Israeli, so obviously you know everything about Israel. Of course I don't get death threats, only lots of love letters. Gilad is in London.
haha, respectfully
Let us note please that US had expanded with murder in mid and in fact for 300yrs before 'jews' came to america in large numbers.
Of late, it just cld not expand alone. It expands now with the help of most 'jews', all nato lands; some asian and african lands as well.
I suggest that one can equate 'jews' of america and nato lands with the 'jews' of israel. Most of the 'jews' in israel are disliked or discriminated by white 'jews' in diaspora. There is no evidence to even suggest that the diaspora 'jews' who thrive well in diaspora, are israeli first.
Love of money, prestige occludes, i suggest, that possiblity.In add'n, over-representation of any ethnic group in US governance, such as wasps, jews, et al is constitutionally OK.
We know that israel self cld not even manufacture cutlery let alone tanks, aircraft, etc. if left on its own. Fact, is israel wld have never risen had it not been for christian lands.
In short, even today it is total or near-total dependency on US/nato. It is not an envious position to be.
US needs help even from israel as well. It is a base or a foothold for nato-US' spy agencies from which cia-mossad-eurospy agenices can carry all kinds of terrorist acts against their chosen enemies.
Is 'jewish' influence in US and nato's quest for more land as important as people say? Do germans, french, canadians, usans, et al really need jews to tell them: Look there are defenseless lands; let's take them. There is wealth there. We can encircle russia and china which are or cld be the only obstacles in millennial quest
for rule over four corners of the world by world plutos.
And aren't world plutos united like never before just for that purpose? Does anyone believe that world plutos like talmud or torah? Don't they care only for money and power-control? And a japanese or american billionaire is going to let a rich 'jew' boss himher around? And their money being god to them?
Yes, we need to worry about 'jews' also and not just world's super-rich people. Is it to late to stop plutocratic diabolics?
tnx
It's time to order some new sand for this sandbox. And another box of diapers.
I second the motion of Jeff… time to shut down the debate, close the coffee shop, until next posting..
hahajohnnyb @52:
> Of course if this really were AmeriKKKa we would not have any Jews or Arabs here at all, now would we? Don't understand the benefit of importing all you new people, seems to me that we would be doing alot better if we had never built an empire or imported diversity into a homogeneous nation that was doing just fine on its own.
I don't know about Arabs, but the first Jewish synagogue in the U.S. was founded by Sephardic (Spanish and Portuguese) Jews in New York in 1655. And, by the time the United Snakes was founded, there were already large numbers of enslaved African kidnap victims and their (mostly still enslaved) descendants within its borders, and there were still a lot of native americans who hadn't all been driven out or exterminated. Only its governing bodies have been homogeneous, never its population.
If the United Snakes had never "built an empire", it wouldn't exist! The settler colonies that formed the U.S. were an extension of an existing empire, and when they broke off from the "mother" country, they were already an empire with pretensions of expanding into new lands to the West.
The entity that its supporters call "The United States of America" went from being a cancer in the North American continent to a cancer infesting the whole planet, but it has always been a cancer.
Mary @65:
> Now, about the Baseball bats. I have never seen Klansmen in a demo, personally, or Nazis,
Neither have I, but I certainly have seen photos and read reliable reports over the years.
> and I was living in Chicago the time when the Skokie stuff happened (if you saw The Blues > Brothers, you understand) and that was about as "rough" as it ever gets….
Yeah, the Klan march "peacefully" in the light of day and murder people in the dark of night.
> No one should be banged on the head because they have a different point of view, or you, who detest the military haven't gotten that concept clear?
No, I don't want to bang people on the head because they have a different point of view. But when people organize to use force and/or violence against oppressed minorities or immigrants, even if they are only cooperating with the force and violence of the state (Minutemen + ICE, for example), then their heads and other parts of their anatomy become fit for banging.
> If you are walking around with a "weapon" you either look like a fool or you will be photographed and monitored. I don't like either of these things, and has a bat ever resolved anything on the street? It's idiotic.
Personally, I haven't walked around with a bat or other weapon, but I've been photographed and monitored frequently anyway. But many more strikes would have been lost, and many more leftist and African-American meetings would have been broken up by the armed thugs of capital and white supremacy, if workers, Blacks, etc., had not had bats, clubs, and sometimes firearms to enforce their rights.
> About the SYL… let me tell you! I was living with people who were the head of a group called the ISO, one of them now is the editor of the Socialist Worker, to be clear. Obviously, our place was a meeting place for people from all around the world who were passing through Chicago. Of course, you have hundreds of people pass through your home in a given year, and you hear all the stories. I was not personally involved in any party, but my close friends who weren't in the ISO were in INCAR, linked to some other group, can't remember which. I painted banners for them sometimes, but was always outside every group, not officially in any, but friends with many. I heard many stories about the infiltrates, and how they asked for reports of who met with whom, what their habits were, yes, even what courses they followed. I myself was hit by a recruiter (govt) whom it was pointed out to me was "selling the rag" a few months back, who asked about my interest in languages, how would he even know that?… and even about my father's Union affiliations… (he was a steward)…. so, they know things about you because that is what they do… find the most radical of the radical and then weed out everyone and do their things. If you don't know about it, I am shocked.
For the most part, Mary, this last paragraph of yours is incomprehensible. (For, example, who are you accusing of being 'infiltrators' — or is it 'infiltrated'?) If you gave testimony like this in a kangaroo court, the kangaroos would blush.
By the way, INCAR, The International Committee against Racism, was (and, I think, still is) a front for the Progressive Labor Party. The latter started out as a Maoist split-off from the CPUSA around 1960, and evolved into a rather ultra-leftist sect that doesn't believe in a socialist stage before communism, and want to jump right to the latter the day after the revolution. As for the International Socialist Organization, they evolved from a British-based group (led by Ygael Gluckstein, a.k.a. Tony Cliff) that split from the mainstream of Trotskyism because they (the progenitors of the ISO, that is) refused to defend Korea against U.S. imperialism in 1950.
Peoples the world over have been killing, conquering and colonizing one another since man first crawled from the swamps and organized himself into a tribes. And there have always been different types of colonization depending the culture and character of those doing the colonizing.
For example, native Americans fought vicious tribal wars of conquest and slavery for eons before the first Europeans set foot on the continent. Today, they have citizenship, and all the rights and privileges bestowed upon non-native Americans, plus the (heirloom, racially handed down) treaty privileges that grant them partial sovereignty, and which they have utilized to make tens of billions from casinos and other reservation operations that non-natives are not allowed to compete with. Much of their profit is tax-free.
Now contrast this with Jewish colonization in modern time alone: the Jewish Bolsheviks murdered, terrorized, genocided and plundered millions in the Soviet Union in the name of "social justice." The Jewish Zionists have been on a similar tribal rampage (under cover of "self-determination") in the Levant, only on a smaller scale, for decades. And the Israel lobby (organized Jewish colony) has utilized its power to force the American taxpayer to write Israel a blank check; strong-arm the U.S. government to give Israel a "pass" on all its aggression and murder, and veto UN resolutions against it…on and on — all of which contributed to 9/11.
The Israel lobby (organized Jewish colony) initiated, undertook and fulfilled a campaign to lie America into the Iraq war (see ‘The Israel Lobby’ by Walt and Mearsheimer, Clean Break, and Project for a New American Century) and has aggressively supported and pushed other warmongering aggression in the Mideast before and since. To be certain, it had plenty of help from craven, war profiteering, money-worshipping Gentiles in these projects. But it's interesting how much more craven, debased and unabashedly venal these have become since the Jewish colony "Judaized" America. I mean, America always had its "wonderful little wars," but the Iraq war took the phenomenon to a whole new, shamelessly corrupt and nakedly murderous level.
So in modern times alone, from Russia to the Middle East to America, the organized Jewish colonies have proven not only aggressive and murderous, but also seem to take a special sadistic pride and glee in the subversiveness and insidiousness of their treachery, taking it all to the level of a series of well-planned homicides — which makes their actions premeditated, as opposed to evolutionary.
No wonder Jewish Leftists like Chomsky and his acolytes, and Jewish Zionists, always seek to put the Gentile on the defensive: it’s a means of hiding and intimidating inquiry into Jewish colonizing, and historical and contemporary Judeofascist aggression and murder. Of course, point any of this out, and immediately rings out the tribal hue and cry of "anti-Semitism" — which itself, of course, is just another cynical means of camouflaging their premeditated crimes and criminal intentions.
Chris m,
"Indians waging vicious wars against other indians for eons" needs much clarification. Such an utterance, being overgenralized, may mean too liitle, too much, or nothing.
I am not concluding that apaches may have not atacked kiowa or hopis not atacked zunis or vice versa. But as far historical records go, there is no documented evidence that any tribe tried by war to subjugate another tribe or to set up an empire.
For one thing there was much land available and only 12-50 mn people in america prior to coming of euros. Some peole say that in canada just a century ago one cld scoop up with a creel fish from most lakes.
there was lostof game, too.
Indigenes of americas did not have feudal lords, and thus no warlords, like sumer, egypt, persia, russia, britain, france, china, japan, et al
Indigenes had no concept of land ownership; or so i am told. OK, all this does not prove that tribes have no waged 10, 20, 3k, 100k wars.
"People waged wars against other peoples since first emerging from swamps" appears as just another guess. I suggest that since there may have been just a 100k of us or less 500k yrs ago it is unlikely we waged many if any, wars against one another.
And what with? sticks, rocks, spit, snarlings?
Long time passed before we even became tribal. Until that time we must have been klanish; extremely interdependent; trusting and trusted; valuing others and being valued by others.
All that is gone now. Such an idylic social structure had been, i educe, destroyed by shamans and later by priests who by 6k yrs ago became kings-gods.
When the idyllic governance and structure of society was utterly destroyed nobody knows.It probably began to happen with the rise of shamanism some 15-50k yrs ago and by the time of king-god lugalzaggisi of sumer it had been fully completed.
And no empire proves this than US. The power of its, tho modern, warlors and patricians is astounding. Any US prez, is a god when it comes to dealing with paleo or neo indians.
Regarding bolsheviks, i do not know how many of its members had been khazaro-slavic. There were also mensheviks[ meaning the minor side; who voted against revolution] i'd like to know how many of its members were 'jews'.
tnx
Corrections. Kings becoming gods happened ca 7k yrs. Indigenes of n. america and not "indigenes of americas". The 'indians' of south and central america had different societies; possibly feudal! tnx
Re bozhidar balkas vancouver (@76): "The 'indians' of south and central america had different societies; possibly feudal!"
There were many different kinds of societies in the Western Hemisphere before the European invasion, including some that were centralized despotic empires, but I'm not aware of evidence for any of them being 'feudal' in anything like what that word meant in Europe. It's interesting that most of those little empires, such as the Maya empires based at Uxmal, Chichen Itza, Palenque and places in what is now Guatemala, had totally collapsed before the arrival of the Europeans, the main exceptions being the Aztecs and the Incas.
Yes, the label "feudal society" is indeed a generalized term.To me, it labels any kind of master-serf relationship.
Canadian and american indigenous societies were, or seems to me, quite egalitarian. They all had a head, tho, just like possibly every other people or even a klan.
Gorillas have a 'leader'. I put the words under single quotes to indicate that they are vastly different leaders than king or modern kings or kings-gods. So having a head may be an innate trait for us and, imo, enhances calm, peace, security, feelings of belonging, etc.
However, for the last 15k yrs, we've had only masters.
Any icecold looker can see that masters do not teach kids to look out for selves; while deeply respecting the right of also others to look after selves; they are taught solely to look after the master class.
That just a yr ago, 98% of US pop voted for them, proves how successful the onslaught on our nervous systems had been; and in the processs obtained near-total obedience. And no pertinent or elucidating questions ever asked.
The control is awesome.
What people don`t know is that not only an utterance can be over- or generalized and thus not understood or understood as intended by speaker, but also any question; thus answer be twisted beyond any comprehension.
And if a priest or pol `answers` such question, one can be sure it wld be mangled by the gloating priest or pol because he had showed u how stupid, unfair, vacuous your question was.
So the methods of deceptions are extremely rudimentary. And it had been noted, as far as i know, just last century by a few educators.
As a genius had noted: It takes a genius to see the obvious; the rest of us miss it.
Perhaps the observation may not be accurate-adequate enough.
Maybe the young girl seeing the naked king and adults seeing him arrayed in best attire might be more elucidating.
tnx
Mary Rizzo @65:
> one comment, if we can get the topic back on track, that would be good.
> I think that the essence of the situation is that the perpetrator of the crime [sic!] is being scrutinised in such a way for two reasons: 1) that he was Muslim/Arab/Palestinian
The imperialist media have to be careful how they handle this, though! They can't say that he was a Muslim Arab reacting to the slaughter of Muslims (Arabs and others) by the U.S. military — slaughter that many of his psychiatric clients must have talked about. Framing it that way, you might have non-Muslims in the U.S., and even more in U.S.-allied countries, thinking and saying that, in an analogous situation and with sufficient courage, they might have reacted the same way. Or that, if they were the target group of attacks by an imperialist military, they would appreciate that somebody in that military would take an action like what happened at Fort Hood.
I'm sure that a reliable public opinion survey in Iraq or Afghanistan, or any Arab or Muslim country, would show a lot more sympathy for Major Nidal Hasan or for Hasan Akbar than for their "victims". The response might be similar in most of Latin America or Africa, too, except perhaps among the comprador elites.
I think I'm less alienated from the majority of humanity than are people like Sami and Jeff, who are so critical of my support for the two Hasans.
Just for the record, I have not adopted '"mutant" Aaron Aarons' as my new screen name. I used it once deliberately. The other two times I used it was because my browser had it stored and I forgot to change it.
There's nothing inherently good or bad about being a "mutant" anyway. If it weren't for mutants, we'd all still be amoebae.
Aaron,
I agree with you that Maj. Hasan is more than likely viewed as a hero throughout the Middle East and much of Latin America and Africa,and particularly where the people have experienced the boot of the US military or are aware enough to have seen it for themselves on Al-Jazeera. If it was otherwise, I would be surprised. In China, and elsewhere there were reports of people who celebrated the events of 9-11 and I can understand that, as well. Here is the US which has its troops all over the globe where their presence is resented, and over the last forty years has killed millions of people who never did the US any harm while at the same time American go about their lives in relative safety.
That being said, for Aaron Arons or anyone else to praise the troubled Maj.Hasan for what he did is not the same thing. If nothing else, even if you harbor sympathies for his action, it's just plain STUPID. Do you, by taking that position, believe that you can convince people that anyone in this country who goes about killing US soldiers on or off their bases is providing justice? Obviously, not, or maybe I shouldn't say that because sometimes I find myself bewildered by the way Trotskyists think.
During the Vietnam war, I worked with vets from that war, both in LA and SF who had returned and were against the war. Has it occurred to you that some of the soldiers that Hasan kiilled, most of whom were apparently black, BTW. might not have also been against the war but did not have the privilege of an Aaron Aarons of living a parasitic life in beautiful Berkeley? Probably not.
Jeff (re: #81),
First of all, I'm not a Trotskyist and haven't been since the 1960's, although on most issues that divide the left I'm closer to Trotskyists than to their opponents.
My biggest difference with Trotskyists is that I don't believe that our task in the United States is to try to win a majority of the population, or even a majority of the "working class", to revolution. Nor do I see our task, as the reformist left does, to be winning a majority for a less vicious, less destructive, imperialism. Rather, I see our task to be the weakening of U.S. imperialism from within so that people in other countries can make their revolutions, which would then weaken U.S. imperialism from without and might make revolution in the U.S. possible in the future.
While I consider Major Hasan's alleged action to be a legitimate act of war, I'm not particularly happy about the deaths of rank-and-file soldiers, some of whom were probably decent people. (I was much happier about the action in 2003 of Sgt. Hasan Akbar, who attacked only officers, killing two and injuring another 10 or so.) But I also am not, in retrospect, happy over the deaths of tens of thousands of German soldiers, mostly conscripts, at Kursk and Stalingrad, though I'm rather glad the German Army was smashed there.
My main purpose in making my comments as I do is to show that not "every American" shares the hypocritical outrage being drummed up by the major media over this and other attacks on "Americans". There's a good essay by Ted Rall on this question at
http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/13-vs-2-million/Content?oid=1312082
As for my "parasitic life in beautiful Berkeley", I think that my ability to survive without contributing to the functioning of this society is perhaps my greatest achievement.
I am traveling now and doing business in the Middle East and I am in contact daily with Arabs and Muslims and I simply do not see any one jumping with joy over the killings in Ft. Hood, Texas. To say that Major Nidal is a hero to the people in the Middle East is to confirm what Zionists Jews and Evangelicals and Neocons trying to say. In fact many of those I spoke with are arguing why the killings could not be like the many, many shootings and killings that took place in America? Just the fact that he is of Arab origin and is of the Muslim faith does not make him any different than those who committed similar crimes in the US. I remember the Son of Sam (Berkowitz) when I was working in NYC. Hardly anyone mentioned he was a “Jew” or a “Zionist Jew” taking revenge. He was no different that Richard Speck who killed some 24 nurses in Chicago some years ago. No one dare to say he was a Christian killer and murderer. So why label Major Hasan as a “Muslim” killer. There are over 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world and if some 50,000 are glad he did this it does not mean the rest of the 1,200,000,950 agrees and it is unfair and racially and politically motivated to say the Arab and Muslim world think of him as hero. He is a hero to no one, not to me and certainly not to the 1.3 billions. This man has been tried, convicted already by the media and by US Congress and by Jewish Zionist organizations… Let the courts of law decides his motives and render a verdict. He is entitled to that just like Jonathan Pollard was entitled to a fair trial.
Sami,
I expect there will be different reactions depending on one's life style or class basis. If you visit refugee camps I am sure you will get a different view than if you are talking to businessmen who realize the negative consequences for everyone of Major Hasan being identified as a Palestinian Muslim terrorist. When I first visited Lebanon and Jordan for four months in 1970, the attitudes towards armed struggle to regain the land was very different among businessmen who disliked Jews but were ready to do business with them and who opposed the fedayeen and those in the camps who were committed to doing so. If you are on a business trip and speaking with businessmen, I am not surprised that you have encountered the reaction you describe. In any event, the shooting at Ft. Hood were a tragedy for everyone and do not merit celebration.
That may true for armed resistence and a mean to regain homeland. But to equate armed resistence to the killing in Ft. Hood is not right. I spoke with a wide sector of people here and I can tell you, no one is jumping with joy. I spoke to many people from my home town and that of Major Hasan, and no one is celebrating. Yes, may be among the very narrow Jihadist, this many be true but the 99.9% I say all think of it no different than any of the many cases of shootings that took place and take place on a daily basis.
I wld like to see muslims call selves by their ethnic names, such as lebanese, iraqi, etc.
When people call selves catholics/protestants, muslims, or jews, it indicates that they regards selves first of all christians, muslims, jewish-talmudic and only thereafter whatever.
Of course, italians, poles don't go by the name of their cult. Good many of them reject much of what bible says.
This is not,as far as i know, the case with muslims. And most of them seem to glorify quran.
I read parts of it and found it inane, antihuman; i soon stopped reading it.
Bible to me is just babble and torah just a whorah.
How deletereous effect of the 3 cults can be can be seen by their rejection of homosexuals. Had churches not terrorized them and put them to death they wldn't go hiding and in secert raped young boys.
Instead, they wld not have neeed to keep their sex secret and wld have sex with one another as they do now in much of the world. Thus, there wld not be victims.
In europe, a priest, until just 1800s cld be only a patrician. At one time kings were considered gods; as such were able to enserf or even enslave all nonpatricians.
Mullahs, muftis, imams promote feudal structure of societies and especialy in arab lands. There we find amirs, sheikhs, sultans, kings, aghas, beys, deys, princes and els and als maliki,amin, adin, and et al.
So most muslims are not contributing anything to socialism, democracy, fairness, etc.
rushdie may be the only muslim who exposed islam as a cult; tho it is better in some ways than the other two cults.
We are thus much impeded in our solemn duty to fight US warlords and its much fascist structure of governance. tnx
bozhidar balkas vancouver @86: "I wld like to see muslims call selves by their ethnic names, such as lebanese, iraqi, etc."
"lebanese" and "iraqi" are not ethnic names, but names of nations carved by Western imperialists out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire after "the Great War" (a war which only later became known as "World War I").
Ethnic identity is very complex, but it certainly does include "religious" affiliation, even for many non-believers. That is certainly the case for Jews. One of my uncles was the only one in the family who seemed to care about the Jewish religion, and he was somewhat fanatical about it. IIRC, his two brothers were open atheists and my mother was probably agnostic. On my father's side, nobody talked much about religion. But they all identified as Jews and some, including my mother, freaked out when I threatened to not go through the Bar Mitzvah ritual. I wound up doing it to preserve peace in the family.
When I describe myself as, inter alia, an 'ethnic Jew', it is an acknowledgement of one of the forces that shaped me, not the assertion of tribal solidarity that it was for my parents' generation. (They didn't use the word 'ethnic' before 'Jew', either.)
I can't speak for other ethnicities, but, as one example, I'm sure there are many atheist and agnostic "Catholics" in occupied Northern Ireland.
Mary, et al.,
When you delete comments that have already been followed by later comments, you mess up the numbering and make references by number to the deleted comment or subsequent ones incorrect. It would be better to just delete the contents of such comments and replace them with a note that they have been deleted. You could use a constant replacement text that you could paste each time, so you wouldn't have to do much more work.
aaron,
True, leabanese are divided by religion. I do not know whether they are one people. If not, then the label "lebanese" denotes citizenship and not an ethnicity. However, i wld say that it is better to say that one is lebanese than muslim.
I am not sure that iraqi people, save kurds, are not one ethnos by now. Sumerians, akkadians, chaldeans, and assyrians may have assimilated semitic people who began to infiltrate mesopotamia ca 4.5 k yrs ago.
Kurds are muslim, but do not call selves "muslims". Or do they? Surely, hittites, philistines, nabateans, arameans, yehuds, israelites, hivvites must have by now became a total melting pot. So, calling self a palestinian is correct.
tnx for ur imput.
Interestingly, to the great joy of Tel Aviv, the FBI is trying to link Fort Hood shooting to 9/11. Major Nidal Hasan is being investigated for attending a lecture given by Imam Anwar al-Aulaqi in 2001 (I wonder how many American listen to anti-Muslim tirade every month from Israeli preachers right here in the US!). On September 24, 2009 – the FBI along with Homeland Security goons raided the house of Muhammad Abdullah, a California Marine Corps veteran. The agents asked Abdullah’s opinion about Anwar al-Aulaqi – to which he replied: “He comes from Qur’an and Sunnah”. Could it be that FBI is trying to compensate for the Jewish Lobby pressure on them concerning Harman-Saban-AIPAC affair?…….
9/11: “The dog that doesn’t hunt”
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/911-the-dog-that-doesnt-hunt/