Comments on: The Left and Support for Anti-Imperialist Islamist Resistance http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/ Free Minds for a Free Palestine Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:38:58 +0300 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Dick http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6382 Dick Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:40:12 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6382 The point is not whether anti-imperialists are religious or not, the question is their class politics. In this case Hamas, based on their charter, is an expressly anti-communist organization which openly supports the capitalist mode of production. So, what does that say about the nature of their anti-imperialism? Or, do we support all anti-imperialists regardless of their class position and type of society they would establish upon their anti-imperialist victory. And, what about their history of support from wealthy aristocrats and business interests in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, as well as the Mossad in the 1980s? But, let me push the question further. What is meant by the author's terms "the left", especially when the class politics of Hamas are not discussed or evaluated? Plus, what of the role of the Israeli working class? Depending on the polls, between 5 -10 percent of the Israeli public opposed the Gaza War, and other polls indicate majority support for a two state solution. While obviously a weak solution, it could establish Hamas as the ruling party of Gaza, and possibly the West Bank, after the elimination of the Israeli occupation of those two areas. Plus, most Israelis, especially Israeli workers, are victimized by the Israeli state through economic exploitation, a reduced standard of living because of high military expenditures, and being conscripted for the military. How do they fit into the author's or Hamas's anti-imperialism? And, where does one draw the line with all those who subjectively or objectively present themselves as anti-imperialists? After all, in WWII fascist Japan took up arms against British and American imperialism. They even made appeals to other countries in Asia to join their military efforts to force these Europeans and Euro-Americans out of Asia, so it could be controlled by Asians and not by foreigners. For that matter, Nazi Germany was militantly opposed to British, French, and US imperialism, and actually had some success in places like Lithuania and the Ukraine in generating support from local religious nationalists. The point is not whether anti-imperialists are religious or not, the question is their class politics. In this case Hamas, based on their charter, is an expressly anti-communist organization which openly supports the capitalist mode of production. So, what does that say about the nature of their anti-imperialism? Or, do we support all anti-imperialists regardless of their class position and type of society they would establish upon their anti-imperialist victory. And, what about their history of support from wealthy aristocrats and business interests in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, as well as the Mossad in the 1980s?

But, let me push the question further.

What is meant by the author's terms "the left", especially when the class politics of Hamas are not discussed or evaluated?

Plus, what of the role of the Israeli working class? Depending on the polls, between 5 -10 percent of the Israeli public opposed the Gaza War, and other polls indicate majority support for a two state solution. While obviously a weak solution, it could establish Hamas as the ruling party of Gaza, and possibly the West Bank, after the elimination of the Israeli occupation of those two areas. Plus, most Israelis, especially Israeli workers, are victimized by the Israeli state through economic exploitation, a reduced standard of living because of high military expenditures, and being conscripted for the military. How do they fit into the author's or Hamas's anti-imperialism?

And, where does one draw the line with all those who subjectively or objectively present themselves as anti-imperialists? After all, in WWII fascist Japan took up arms against British and American imperialism. They even made appeals to other countries in Asia to join their military efforts to force these Europeans and Euro-Americans out of Asia, so it could be controlled by Asians and not by foreigners. For that matter, Nazi Germany was militantly opposed to British, French, and US imperialism, and actually had some success in places like Lithuania and the Ukraine in generating support from local religious nationalists.

]]> By: Mary Rizzo http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6372 Mary Rizzo Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:02:38 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6372 Thanks Zarina! Since we started up this site though, which takes a lot of time since it's got more areas to update, I have all but abandoned Peacepalestine (in its various versions) but Pepa does deal more with "activism" and there were many more posts confronting my anger that the culture I was raised to believe in, the one that was "left", "progressive", "humanist", would not know a liberation movement when it hits them on the head. Never is there anything more important in the Palestinian struggle than to just serve the people, their cause and to not dictate to them what they should do. I've had most of the worst confrontations in the past 10 years with people who are supposedly on the same side, but they make all kinds of excuses for why they will not support popular resistance movements, even if they are indeed religiously inspired. I spent a long time watching a few of them and THIS article deals specifically with their problems regarding Hamas. http://peacepalestine.wordpress.com/2005/10/17/jews-against-zionism-more-like-jews-against-the-palestinian-street/ but... don't get me started on what they said about Hezbollah! that was another one of my monitoring obsessions. I can only quote what Rania Masri said when I saw her speak at the Bruxelles Tribunal for Lebanon: "If not for Hezbollah, we would not be hear speaking to you from Lebanon, but from Occupied Lebanon". And another speaker said, "In Lebanon, the Resistance ARE the people". These are the viewpoints that matter, at the end of the day. Thanks Zarina! Since we started up this site though, which takes a lot of time since it's got more areas to update, I have all but abandoned Peacepalestine (in its various versions) but Pepa does deal more with "activism" and there were many more posts confronting my anger that the culture I was raised to believe in, the one that was "left", "progressive", "humanist", would not know a liberation movement when it hits them on the head. Never is there anything more important in the Palestinian struggle than to just serve the people, their cause and to not dictate to them what they should do. I've had most of the worst confrontations in the past 10 years with people who are supposedly on the same side, but they make all kinds of excuses for why they will not support popular resistance movements, even if they are indeed religiously inspired. I spent a long time watching a few of them and THIS article deals specifically with their problems regarding Hamas.
http://peacepalestine.wordpress.com/2005/10/17/jews-against-zionism-more-like-jews-against-the-palestinian-street/
but… don't get me started on what they said about Hezbollah! that was another one of my monitoring obsessions. I can only quote what Rania Masri said when I saw her speak at the Bruxelles Tribunal for Lebanon: "If not for Hezbollah, we would not be hear speaking to you from Lebanon, but from Occupied Lebanon". And another speaker said, "In Lebanon, the Resistance ARE the people". These are the viewpoints that matter, at the end of the day.

]]> By: Zarina Bhatia http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6370 Zarina Bhatia Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:32:37 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6370 Mary, I saw your web, it is excellent and I support Left people like you all over the world in my own limited amateur way. Zarina Mary, I saw your web, it is excellent and I support Left people like you all over the world in my own limited amateur way. Zarina

]]> By: Mary Rizzo http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6368 Mary Rizzo Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:10:07 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6368 http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2006/09/mary-rizzo-shaping-opinions-by.html and here is an example of it played out in my home ground, in Italy. Where there is constriction to conform to a neo-con view of even Muslim groups, and the left... the left supports the suppression of independent thought and dissent! THE LEFT! http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2006/09/mary-rizzo-shaping-opinions-by.html

and here is an example of it played out in my home ground, in Italy. Where there is constriction to conform to a neo-con view of even Muslim groups, and the left… the left supports the suppression of independent thought and dissent! THE LEFT!

]]> By: Mary Rizzo http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6367 Mary Rizzo Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:06:35 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6367 Yes, Zarina, her article is direct and to the point. We sometimes have to put aside what we think is the best system (for instance, secularism, separation of religion and governance) because it doesn't matter what "our" preferred ideals are, but what matters is standing resolutely behind the people who seek to break off imperialist control of their land, resources, culture. I wrote a paper in 2005 about the Left abandoning the Palestinian cause, and it was basically to support the traditional constituency that was very progressive on any other issue but Palestine. http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2005/02/left-and-palestine.html but even closer to the flame is the position that the Marxist leftists who claim they "do it for Palestine" is this one: http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2006/12/palestinians-need-support-not-division.html in which I write: We live in societies where it is considered the maximum aspiration to encourage democracy through getting people to vote, (and in the case of the 25 January 2006 landslide victory of Hamas, only a small segment of Palestinians were permitted to vote, much to the general acceptance of most Western activists, some of whom called attempts by Italian activists to seek the registration of exiled Palestinian voters “naïve” and worse, which is sad, if the vote is supposed to mean so much to these cyber activists), and when the results are not what the “international community” wants, the democratic choice is undermined. “Progressive voices” call for the dismantling of the Palestinian Authority, others beg for a government of “National Unity”, others simply charge ahead and claim that now is the time to convince the public opinion that the foreseen (and ethical) One State Solution has got to be Secular, to avoid any (Muslim) religious party ever again making a landslide victory even among those who are not Muslim. Rather than look at the vote and accept this as the democratic choice of the people who were permitted to vote (and actually went out and did just that), the tempo picks up for the campaigns to push forward the philosophy of secularism for the Palestinian people. Do these people stop to think about the message they send forth concerning “Western democracy”? To me, the message sent borders on Fascism or comes close to the Neocon theories proposed by those who claim to be Conservatives or even Leftists, which express the thoughts that there is only one particular model of democracy, and it must be a reflection of the societies those in the West have. Nevermind that the popular vote doesn’t get respected much even in States like the USA. We have not supported the Palestinians in their choice the way we should have done. We have failed them and stand by and watch as they are being punished for exercising their rights. Yes, Zarina, her article is direct and to the point. We sometimes have to put aside what we think is the best system (for instance, secularism, separation of religion and governance) because it doesn't matter what "our" preferred ideals are, but what matters is standing resolutely behind the people who seek to break off imperialist control of their land, resources, culture.

I wrote a paper in 2005 about the Left abandoning the Palestinian cause, and it was basically to support the traditional constituency that was very progressive on any other issue but Palestine.
http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2005/02/left-and-palestine.html

but even closer to the flame is the position that the Marxist leftists who claim they "do it for Palestine" is this one:
http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2006/12/palestinians-need-support-not-division.html
in which I write:
We live in societies where it is considered the maximum aspiration to encourage democracy through getting people to vote, (and in the case of the 25 January 2006 landslide victory of Hamas, only a small segment of Palestinians were permitted to vote, much to the general acceptance of most Western activists, some of whom called attempts by Italian activists to seek the registration of exiled Palestinian voters “naïve” and worse, which is sad, if the vote is supposed to mean so much to these cyber activists), and when the results are not what the “international community” wants, the democratic choice is undermined. “Progressive voices” call for the dismantling of the Palestinian Authority, others beg for a government of “National Unity”, others simply charge ahead and claim that now is the time to convince the public opinion that the foreseen (and ethical) One State Solution has got to be Secular, to avoid any (Muslim) religious party ever again making a landslide victory even among those who are not Muslim. Rather than look at the vote and accept this as the democratic choice of the people who were permitted to vote (and actually went out and did just that), the tempo picks up for the campaigns to push forward the philosophy of secularism for the Palestinian people. Do these people stop to think about the message they send forth concerning “Western democracy”? To me, the message sent borders on Fascism or comes close to the Neocon theories proposed by those who claim to be Conservatives or even Leftists, which express the thoughts that there is only one particular model of democracy, and it must be a reflection of the societies those in the West have. Nevermind that the popular vote doesn’t get respected much even in States like the USA. We have not supported the Palestinians in their choice the way we should have done. We have failed them and stand by and watch as they are being punished for exercising their rights.

]]> By: Zarina Bhatia http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6365 Zarina Bhatia Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:37:17 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6365 Any resistance is faith-free and is jargon-free and via a mass movement against the oppresssor ie the imperialist agency. It is to be supported if the people who rise up against it may be upholding their values expressed by the use of whatever label, including faith, ideology or whatever. As a Left Supporter for Justice, Freedom and Peace from the shackles of oppression, I submit my support to Hamas, Hizbollah etc against imperialist policies of Israel for Palestinians, Lebanese. For resistors in Pakistan I support their ideology of Islam, restoration of authority of Judges or whatever they may call it against USA and its oppression of the Pakistni people. For Afghanistan, I abhor violence and support rights for the people of Afghanistan by democratic choice of their leadership not imposed by imperialism. For Iraqis I support their Shia idealism that was squashed by their dictator but I am against the Invasion by imperialism of USA and UK that caused massacres of its people. Nadine Rosa-Rosso in her article above has tried to state this quite clearly. Any resistance is faith-free and is jargon-free and via a mass movement against the oppresssor ie the imperialist agency. It is to be supported if the people who rise up against it may be upholding their values expressed by the use of whatever label, including faith, ideology or whatever. As a Left Supporter for Justice, Freedom and Peace from the shackles of oppression, I submit my support to Hamas, Hizbollah etc against imperialist policies of Israel for Palestinians, Lebanese. For resistors in Pakistan I support their ideology of Islam, restoration of authority of Judges or whatever they may call it against USA and its oppression of the Pakistni people. For Afghanistan, I abhor violence and support rights for the people of Afghanistan by democratic choice of their leadership not imposed by imperialism. For Iraqis I support their Shia idealism that was squashed by their dictator but I am against the Invasion by imperialism of USA and UK that caused massacres of its people. Nadine Rosa-Rosso in her article above has tried to state this quite clearly.

]]> By: John Airs http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6361 John Airs Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:32:57 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6361 A cogent argument and excellent suggestion. Thank you. A cogent argument and excellent suggestion. Thank you.

]]> By: Zarina Bhatia http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6347 Zarina Bhatia Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:21:34 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6347 I agree. We are! I agree. We are!

]]> By: Gilad http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/02/11/the-left-and-support-for-anti-imperialist-islamist-resistance/#comment-6346 Gilad Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:09:27 +0000 http://palestinethinktank.com/?p=3072#comment-6346 So we are getting somewhere after all.... So we are getting somewhere after all….

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