HYPOCRITES! In defense of the Sahrawi people
By Guest Post • Jul 16th, 2008 at 14:31 • Category: Analysis, Middle East Issues, Newswire, Opinions and Letters, Resistance
WRITTEN BY LUIS PORTILLO
To those who, for so long, have silenced the legitimate claims of the Sahrawi people and their deep cries of anguish and pain.
To those who have systematically kept silent about the atrocities committed by the Moroccan Makhzen civil, military and religious hierarchy against the Sahrawi people.
To those who looked away or silenced the rousing cries of the Spanish nation in support of their Sahrawian brothers and sisters.
To those who hastily signed shady alliances with a corrupt, criminal, colonial imperialist and genocidal regime.
To those who included the Western Sahara and its native population in the French-American neocon “pensée unique” package.
To those who tried to “encapsulate the Saharan conflict” in order to dedicate their time to more profitable affairs.
To those who advised on and financed the construction and arming of the largest military wall of our times and the widespread land-mining of Sahrawi territory.
To those who came to agreements with the fatuous and irredentist Moroccan Government in order to pillage the natural resources of the Western Sahara.
To those who, in sinister offices and governmental cabinets, coldly laid plans for the ignominious Green March and the infamous, illegal, immoral and politically suicidal Tripartite Agreement of Madrid in 1975.
To those who, when it suited them, publicly supported the Sahrawi people, encouraged them in their fight against the invaders and assured them that their “Party” would be with them until the final victory, and who then forgot them and abandoned them to the claws of a criminal regime and its “Africom” allies.
To those who oversaw the “model” Spanish Democratic Transition and then overlooked historic memory, renouncing the possibility of annulling the Tripartite Agreement signed during Franco’s defamed regime and of recognising the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR) as an independent, sovereign Constitutional State, free of executioners, pillagers and criminals.
To those who give medals to suspected criminals, and treacherously and secretly sell or give arms to the Alaouite regime, violating the law and silencing the will of the immense majority of the Sahrawi people.
To those who so quickly forgot that the Sahrawi solidarity movement represented what was “the noblest and best” of Spanish society, in the worn-out words of the PSOE leader and ex-president of the Spanish Government, Felipe González.
To those who evade their historic, moral, legal and political responsibilities, who do not demand that international law is respected and applied, and who would give lessons on “morality in the Hamada”.
To those who, in spite of all their attempts to gloss over the reality of the situation and historic evidence, now recognise that Law and Justice are on the side of the Sahrawi people, but who twist and turn before what they call “political reality” (indulged and encouraged), that is, the rule of force, invasion and military occupation of Western Sahara, the illegal settlement of hundreds of thousands of foreign colonists, and the daily fierce and systematic repression of the Sahrawi civilian population.
To those who have tried, and continue trying by any means available, to brand the Polisario Front, and the most peace-loving and patient nation in the world, as “terrorists”.
To those who have tried to cheat and divide – through sophistry, silence and lies – the Sahrawi solidarity movement.
To those who have never had to sew on a button in the desert, whose only information comes from films viewed from the comfort of their metropolitan, bureaucratic armchairs, and have not suffered – or have forgotten – the hunger and thirst for Justice.
To those who have generously placed their disinformation resources at the service of the Makhzen spokespeople (mercenaries) and their imperial allies, denying voice or word to the defenders of Justice and International Law.
To those who demanded the resignation of James Baker, concealing and silencing the denunciation and testimony of experts in the matter, such as that of the American ex-ambassador, Frank Ruddy, among many others.
To those high-ranking officials heading MINURSO with the explicit brief to prevent the birth of a free, independent and genuine State south of the Moroccan border, and who have carried out their mission “with pleasure”.
To those for whom the life of a Sahrawian child, woman or elderly person has never been of any importance, whose only interest has been their own well-being, security, profits and personal interests, and who now protest hypocritically about the suffering of Sahrawian children in the Hamada, that hardest and most inhospitable of deserts.
To those who, lacking authentic or credible “arguments”, now make use of the Sahrawian children as a new “argument” in order to break the will of the Sahrawi people and force them to renounce their legitimate and inalienable rights, recognised since 1960 by the UN, the OAU/AU and the International Community, without even mentioning those who are guilty of and responsible for the tragedy suffered by the attacked and massacred Sahrawi people, a tragedy which is concealed behind the euphemism status quo.
To those who have not contributed a single school or educational institution, not even one single Spanish teacher (or of any other subject) in order to preserve the native tongue of Cervantes in the tormented Sahrawi refugee camps, the only Arab nation to preserve Spanish as the official State language.
To those who are now tearing their hair out – or so they would have us believe – before the enormous suffering of this generous, hospitable and grateful nation, whose patience and desire for peace has been tested to the limit.
To those who have never contributed a single euro in order to feed the impoverished Sahrawi nation (using hunger as a military and political tool), nor stuck up a sticker, nor handed out a manifesto denouncing the status quo or supporting the Sahrawi cause, and who so generously lend their voices to the Makhzen cause.
To those who have maintained a blessed silence, or caused it to be kept, regarding the outrages and permanent violations of Human Rights on the part of the Moroccan authorities, in the Occupied Territories of Western Sahara.
To those who deny visas to Sahrawi leaders with the aim of preventing them from attending the International Conference of Legal Experts for the Sahara in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, so as not to offend the Alaouite regime, or simply "on orders" from above.
To those who put the innumerable letters they receive from readers and citizens indignant about the situation, in a bottomless drawer or throw them directly into the wastepaper bin, silencing or twisting those questions which really matter to public opinion, lacking the courage to seek the truth and proclaim it, as it is, to the four winds.
To those who, in order to avoid problems for themselves, have chosen to submit to the diktat of the Makhzen, of the ultra neocon Government of the Empire, and its elitist and sophisticated French allies.
To those who validate, or accept without question, the entire battery of the illegal, genocidal, occupying invader’s wiles in order to prevent the decolonisation of the last African colony, using the Sahrawi nation as a negotiating tool, conducting business behind its back and to its cost.
To those who pretend to suffer on behalf of this nation’s youngest members who have been expelled from their land, but have spent thirty three years without breathing a word about the atrocities committed by the Moroccan authorities.
To those who have tried to fool public opinion by saying or insinuating that the Polisario Front is responsible for the dreadful situation, when it is precisely the Front which has spent more than thirty years protecting their nation, denouncing the situation to the international community, building a State in exile, a free and democratic society, and ceaselessly searching for a legitimate, dignified and lasting solution in accordance with the most fundamental principles of International law.
To those who trick the Moroccan nation and divert their attention away from their real issues and from the causes and origins of their real problems, inflaming them and making them believe that the Sahara belongs to them, in contrary to all international resolutions and reports.
To those who would have us believe that the Polisario Front – an international liberation movement – should concern itself with “democratising” the difficult-to-classify Moroccan political regime, contravening (as has the CIA, throughout their history) the internationally recognised principle of not interfering in the internal affairs of other countries, and avoiding any mention of how the Alaouite regime “treats” those, be they Sahrawi or Moroccan, who dare ask for justice and freedom for their people. This responsibility, which if at concerns anyone at all, concerns the international community and the great political powers, they give as if it were a gift to the Polisario Front!
To those who avoid suggesting a solution similar to that applied to the decolonisation of East Timor, the erstwhile colony of Portugal invaded by Indonesia and now a free, independent and sovereign nation thanks to the painful struggle of the Timor nation and the correction of Portugal’s former mistakes. It is incoherent, absolutely incoherent, that Portuguese leaders today refuse to approach the Western Sahara problem in the same way, but entirely “comprehensible”, given the Azores photograph.
To those who applied chapter VII of the United Nations Charter to the case of Kuwait, or to the pirate ships of the Indian Ocean, but refuse to apply the same international legal provisions to the Makhzen pirates, demanding and obliging the Moroccan Government to leave their colony, invaded and illegally occupied with blood and arms, and to give its immediate consent to the referendum on self-determination ordered by the UN (“MINURSO”), leaving all options open and with legal, democratic guarantees.
To those who imposed the independence of Kosovo, regardless of international law, and deny even the possibility of this option to a nation which has the legal support of the international community.
To the ignorant and reactionary cave-dwellers of traditional Spain who, even today in the 21st century, dare to blame the Sahrawi nation for its tragic situation, because they “wanted to gain independence from Spain”, ignoring the history of so many decolonisation processes (a million dead in the case of Algeria) and the typical “reactionary reaction” of the metropolis; and who still believe, even today, that the colonised nations owe their lives to the metropolis.
To those who, instead of making good use of the legal instruments available to Humanity (such as Chapter VII of the UN Charter) in order to bring about a peaceful and effective solution to “conflicts” such as that in Western Sahara (so obvious that legal experts classify it as res ipsa loquitur, it speaks for itself), would have us swallow the farce of sitting two absolutely unequal parties around a "negotiation" table: one party obviously responsible (res ipsa loquitur), arrogant, armed to the teeth and with their occupation accomplished and financed, and the other, absolutely helpless and unprotected, whose only arms are to have right and international law on their side, the historic experience of all decolonisation processes, and the overwhelming support of society and of the International solidarity movement in favour of the Sahrawi people’s cause.
To all of these, this insignificant world citizen, entirely in his own name and accepting all personal responsibility, levels the accusation of action or omission, and calls them hypocrites.
Luis Portillo Pasqual del Riquelme is a doctor in Economic Sciences, a State employee, and ex-lecturer of International Economic Structure at the Universidad Autónoma de Madrid (Autonomous University of Madrid).
Guest Post is the author as indicated in the tagline. He/she (or the source that is indicated within the post) reserves the rights to the material published.
Email this author | All posts by Guest Post
excuse me!
you looks well paid by the Algerian regime to defend a false cuase, from the bigining and Algeria is spending money to find people like you to spread this kind of lies about the honorability of the moroccan cause and the moroccan right to revoer his right to recover his dignity by recovering his territory, why you don´t fight to get the right to the kabyle people (10 million people) in north of algeria?
you seems egnoring the truth, the international comunity supported moroccan aproch, as they wants moroccan separatists "retained in tindouf by algerian military" to come back and to forget about the commonist algerian ideology, algeria is training the terrorist and the polisario in the same camps, so the only HYPOCRIT HERE IS YOURSELF
Sorry, but no one pays me any money to believe that the Sahrawi people have a right to not be manipulated by this leader or that one, this country or that one in order to have the autonomy they strive for.
Please inform me of the Kabyle people. I know not of them, and if you give me some information, I can know where you are coming from.
Many, many thanks Mary Rizzo for having posted "HYPOCRITES !" in your blog and for helping to support the Truth and the much needed and neglected Sahrawi people, those who have no voice.
I thank you too in their name, even if I have no representation from them. I only am a Spanish citizen fighting for Justice and International Law. At the end, the truth will win. "We shall overcome" (Joan Baez, Pete Seegers an so on).
I think blogs ant actions like yours will contribute to spread the truth all around the world. Thankyou once more.
And to our moroccan friend, I recomend to read -and to study- articles and works like the following ones:
"Western Sahara: The Legitimate Reasons of the Saharawi People "
http://www.tlaxcala.es/pp.asp?reference=4965&lg=en
"Open letter sent to the Spanish Members of Parliament"
http://sahararesiste.blogspot.com/2008/05/open-letter-sent-to-spanish-members-of.html
"Stop the exploitation of natural resources in occupied Western Sahara"
http://www.ovimagazine.com/art/2783?PHPSESSID=d089300e8343ffe664ba26a0a9f762ab
"International Law and the Question of Western Sahara"
http://www.arso.org/Pedrosbook.pdf
"Free Western Sahara"
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120838949685621211-lMyQjAxMDI4MDE4NzMxODc5Wj.html
"WESTERN SAHARA: AFRICA’S LAST COLONY"
http://arso.org/RuddyAlaskaspeech2007.htm
"Morocco and Western Sahara"
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/203
"The Future of Western Sahara"
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4410
"UN Betrayal of Western Sahara"
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/228
"Western Sahara"
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/227
"Western Sahara: Against Autonomy"
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4172
"Western Sahara: The Other Occupation"
http://stephenzunes.com/Articles/TikkunV21No1WesternSaharaTheOtherOccupation.pdf
"How the US and Morocco seized the Spanish Sahara"
http://mondediplo.com/2006/01/12asahara
"PROPOSITION DU FRONT POLISARIO POUR UNE SOLUTION POLITIQUE MUTUELLEMENT ACCEPTABLE ASSURANT L' AUTODETERMINATION DU PEUPLE DU SAHARA OCCIDENTAL"
http://www.arso.org/PropositionFP100407.htm
JAMES A. BAKER III:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/printable/transcript_sahara_print.html
Western Sahara UN Documents
http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/site/c.glKWLeMTIsG/b.2833281/
"Letter of Thabo M'beki to Mohamed VI"
http://arso.org.site.voila.fr/MBK.htm
And so on… Too much? That's nothing. Internet is full of works about the lies and crimes of the règime governing Morocco. And much more… Also outside Internet:
Thomas M. Franck, “The Stealing of the Sahara” , in The American Journal of International Law (AJIL), October 1976, Vol. 70, No. 4, pp. 694 -721.
So, Moroccan friend, we, the people of the world will defend International Law and, therefore, the Sahrawi People. ¡ We all are now Sahrawis now ! ¡ VIVA SÁHARA LIBRE !
Cheers, Mary Rizzo.
thank you for replaying and posting my comment!
I"am from Layoune southern Morocco, or what algerians calls western sahara, please read the history of morocco, and you will find out why morocco wants back his territory, and why algeria with his strong a confortable oil situation supports the polisario separatists.
the moroccan king is original from the south "western sahara" this territory was stolen by spanish occupation in 1902, like the north Rif, it´s normal that´s the spaniards get a real resistance from the north because it was largley populated, and the kingdom was suffring from poverty, and the underdevelopment in all areas, so spain and france spreeded the country, in parts, at the end of occupation, Franco signed a peace treaty with morocco, recognizing that this territory belongs to morocco simply, at the same time morocco was helping Algeria to repel and recover his independance.
you have many proves, in 1777 morocco has signed a freindship and trade treaty with the USA, (the oldest one in humain history – because it was respected for centuries-) in this treaty the us representative had talks with the ´´Moors Empror´´ because the country started from Tangiers to the actual Senegal Saint luis region.
it´s not just a joke the seriousity of this situation, or just political propaganda, it´s a real issue and morocco is fighting Inderctly Algeria because they retain many thousends of saharawis in Tindouf camps( you can check many humanitarian organisations reports) the Large majority of Saharawi people lives already in the western sahara region or moroccan sahara, (as you want to call it) and they are moroccans, the minority living in algeria (and having Algerian passports) get financial and political support from the Algerian regime.
In fact algeria is spending more money in this issue than developping her own people, Why?
because of the international legality? i don´t think so, Algeria is supporting the rebelion in north Mali and Niger, they wants to annexe this territories after keeping this region ander pressure, the internation community call this a post cold war effect.
Why Algeria is making his population to believe that Morocco is his enemy number 1?
Simply because the country is a sleeping dinamite bombe, the civilian war! to make people forget the internal problems the gouvernement creat a distraction (moroccan enemy)(and terror fighting)
Hndresds of kabylian people die every day in algeria because they are seeking independence, from algeria they speaks berber, and largly cristians, and Algeria is killing this resistance in silince and giving her the name of anti-terror-war! how it´s possible that´s a strong country like algeria can´t finish with this problem?
they have a geography less complicated than morocco, how it´s possible that those (hundreds of terrorits can survive?)
simply because they are not terrorists but a large number of people more that 10 million of cabylians fight to get thier freedom from the opressive military algerian military regime.
Algeria to avoid a precedent in the region, by giving an autonomy to the moroccan desert in the maghreb, like morocco wants to do with the sahara, they are selling thier souls to the devil to avoid giving the sme kind of autonomy to the cabylian( mediterranean cost) Algeria is seeking an atlantic strategical open side, is for this they support the moroccan separatist to get a peace of the territory, as reagan said once in refernce to this regional issue. if you fallow in deep and analytical point of view you will find out that at the end , that algeria is the only player in thig (Mascarde).
hope you will take my word and get all the information before taken a radical close point of view:
Why spain supports the moroccan separatists?
spain control two moroccan cities in the north, Ceuta and Melilia, spain knows for sure that morocco once his southern issue solver he will ask and insist with strenght to recover his northern citires, right!
so Spain have interest to keep this fake problem survivnig, to avoid to face a country with getting strong day after day.
In the case of algeria is exactley the same, if you check the UN official borders you will say that the north east side of morocco bordring Algeria have no official border, because algeria still a big territory to morocco after france left, so now you have the diferent sides of the same picture, to think about the complexcity and the core of this long term dispute:
Quodos Mary for bringing this forgotten people to the media.
I have lived in Mauritania for a while and know a little about it and have read some things about the history, but even then, I would say that I am ill informed and know next to nothing about it.
Mauritania became a country only in 1960 and its capital Nouakchott was a hamlet of a few houses, and not a thriving desert city/port. At the same time the Western Territories were in dispute with Morocco and Spain. the United Nations wants to hold a referendum of the people there, which has been prevented by Morocco for years, with various excuses. The situation is unlike any the western mind can understand. the people who rightfully live there and are in exile in Algeria and Mali, have to be 'registered' in order to vote in the referendum. But people have no papers, no identity and the only criteria for voting is to be acknowledged by the local 'Shaikh' who will vouch for you. Only then do you get on the lists.
the tribal organization is so foreign to the western mind that misunderstandings abound. and they try to impose a 'western' solution to the problem. Of course with the discovery of oil in Mauritian waters the interests of the international oil barons and their hangers on is stimulated. Where in the world are the most profitable oil deposits? In the deserts and the nomads of various 'countries' are shunted aside in the name of progress.
NOW a thriving desert city/port. should have proof read.
Good response, Mary. As a Western Sahara blogger, I'm often accused of being a paid Algerian agent. I guess those commenters just can't understand that people would be so offended by injustice that they'd work to stop it pro bono.
I really liked this post and will be writing about it on my site.
Thanks Luis for the links. Thanks Moroccan Sahrawi for the input too, although I agree with Luis here that the issue is about people who have been manipulated by larger interests. Thanks Will and Ibrahim. (I'll check out all the info all of you have provided in the coming days). I had some children from the Sahrawi here as guests for a week when a local solidarity group brought them over, as they try to do once a year. In Italy, there are a few people very involved in the cause, and I discovered the issue by accident when approached by one of these activists several years ago when he was seeking families to host the children and knew that in the past I've had kids from Chernobyl here who were part of a program to allow them to be near iodine (sea air) in order to have a period of rehabilitation. The children were wonderful, I was honoured to have them with us and I learned a bit about the situation from the person who was organising the trip for the 30 kids.
It is hard to get information about the background, and I am not surprised that many don't know, but what is indeed sad is that our friend Jalal sees us and them in a hostile way when this should not be the case. I hope that we can all understand that individuals all need their rights, and groups seek their rights as well, not against others, but as a way to express themselves, not alienated from their environment or even their neighbours or states that surround them. Perhaps one day it can happen, but first we have to recognise that people are always used as the pawns in bigger games, and pitting one group against the other is tragic. No one knows where it will end, but it is a mistake to believe it is all influenced by the interests of the states that stake claims, and not by a recognition of basic rights.
Maybe our dear friend, as a good morrocan, doesn’t know what MAKHZAN is:
Maybe our visionary friend when he said, “the moroccan king is original from the south “western sahara”, he doesn’t know where the Makhzan was/is based and what Bled Siba is.
The current dinasty, the alauí dinasty, and the center of Makhzan is original from Tafilalet, 1727 (current Maknes-Tafilalet). That’s, dear, not exactly Western Sahara.
Regarding Bled Siba, we remaind our historian friend, that was the tribes territory which wasn’t under control of the Makhzan sovereignty. The Saharuis tribes were considered as Bled Siba, so that mean no evident links between makhzanian sovereignty and Saharaui tribe-territory. To demonstrate what we mean, the International Court pronounced a resolution on 16 October 1975:
First question: Was Western Sahara (Gold River and Sakiet El Hamra) at the time of its colonization by Spain a territory without owner (terra nullius)?
The International Court pronounced that Western Sahara wasn’t Terra Nullis before Spanish colonization. 13 votes against 3.
Second question: After the Morrocan aspiration, the Court concluded (14 votes against 2) that “the evidence and information available to them did not demonstrate the existence of any links of territorial sovereignty between the territory of Western Sahara, on the one hand and the Kingdom of Morocco or the Mauritanian complex on the other . Therefore, the Court found that there were no legal ties able to modify the implementation of resolution 1514 (XV) in terms of decolonisation of Western Sahara and in particular the implementation of self-determination through expression free and genuine will of the populations of the territory”.
The composition of the Court was as follows: President: Lachs, Vice-President: Ammoun; Judges: Forster, Gros, Bengzon, Petrén, Onyeama, Dillard, Ignacio-Pinto de Castro, Morozov, Jimenez de Aréchaga, Sir Humphrey Waldock, Nagendra Singh and Ruda; Judge ad hoc: Boni.
Maybe our Moroccan friend doesn’t know that Morocco also claimed sovereignty of the current territory of Mauritania, according to the thesis (The Big Morocco) of Moroccan nationalist party Istiqlal and its leader Allal El-Fasi (1910, Fes- 1974 Bucarest)
In addition, when our “look-at-the-external-rather-than-internal” friend mentioned “the north Rif”, he perhaps forgot that this territory was a republic, Rif Republic (1923-1926) leaded by Abd al-Karim al-Khattabi, and that why, the Makhzan declared to boycott that region for many years. Especially when he talk about “kabylian people die every day in algeria because they are seeking independence…” It seems that he didn’t see demonstrations of Amazigh (bereber) people in his dear Morocco. It seems that the camel sees the hump of others camels but do not yours!
We do not deny having a good relationship with our Algerian brothers, and we will be eternally grateful, because they gave us an inhospitable territory known as the HAMADA after fleeing from Moroccan oppression and the NAPALM bombings of aviation Moroccan. But who fought and still fighting against Morocco along more than 33 years are we, Saharawi People, and we will got our self-determination, sooner or later, in sha'a Allah!
However what our friend call “polisario separatists” or “moroccan separatists retained in tindouf by algerian military” is the biggest manipulation never heard. A month ago a Moroccan weekly newspaper with great circulation called "NICHAN" was, for the first time, in the refugee camps and found how we are there, and how we prefer to stay in the Hamada with our dignity, rather than stay under the force of the invader oppressor. Also they found, as the weekly newspaper says itself, that we have made the Hamada a place liveable thanks to our ability to fight and our firm belief in our right to achieve our self-determination without manipulation.
We welcome that every one expresses his opinion freely, but we are calling for NO MANIPULATION, NO FALSE INFORMATION, NO MAKHZANIAN PROPAGANDA, for that there’s the Maghreb Arab Press (MAP)!!!
¡VIVA EL SAHARA LIBRE SIEMPRE!
SAHARAWI YOUTH ASSOCIATION
The problem of Moroccan who do not hear, do not see, do not understand and do not want to understand.
The history said that the Sahara is not Morocco, history and the International Court of Justice. The UN resolutions say the same thing.
Morocco also claims the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, southern Spain (Al-Andals), part of Algeria and Mauritania. Morocco is the current imperialism. A medieval country, governed by a dictator king.
Morocco is a country that violates human rights with "placet" of the international community.
Morocco is the second country in the world, after Israel, which most UN resolutions had failed to comply.
Morocco is not a just cause, is quite the opposite. The only just cause is the independence of Western Sahara.
SaharaLibre
for bachir saharawi,
i can see that always people come with words like Makhzen wich means in Arabic 'gouvernment ' this guy knows nothing about history, you try in introduce the Algerian vesion, in this blog, but thanks to the internation historian from difernts countries have written the same morocco history, so deferent individuals in diferents countries in the classic world with no( internet or the comunication manners like of now a days) coulden't simply write the same history wish is the truth, only spain and algeria are trying to diform this truth; and our friend jalal expained, so keep your low cost expanations to those whome are blid to the historical right to morocco to live in his whole territory,( you can't ask morocco to give his territory to Algeria) the 40 million of moroccans prefer to die, before seeing thiere historical ground teken by terrorists.
Polisario is the top side of the Iceberg, in other words the big mascarade, those terror supporter like the PKK uses some orfins to give the false image of population oppression, the spanish guy(if he is spanis really?) gave us some links, lol all those links are empty of all sens, and writen from people whom are part of the problem! so not trustable!
personnaly saw many wifs of polisario leaders in Marbella Spain Splashing the humanitarian aid in spain, and having fun and shipping in branded clothes in class shopps, and in the media they are using the suffrence of other retaind saharawis in tindouf( a city stolen by algeria to morocco) check the 70ties history)
what about the slavvery in the polisario camps? what about the little girl deported in cuba (like many other children) to keep anf force thier families lto live in the camps!
i know that polisario like other terror groups uses all the ways to get allies to thiere false cause, and get support, but thanks god people like me , or other when they talk about the truth of moroccan legalety to live his territory, many people think that we are belicous, which is simply not truth, we defend the moroccan right to recover his dignity by recovering his sovernty in all his territories.
the big power knows the moroccan truth smply for this they support Morocco, the legalety and the truth of our cause make us stronger than thos who own oil, weare strog, because we lived in this piece og ground for 2200 years, and we will remain in this country for ever. polisario have Algerian passports, so they are algerians, they can live like algerians, simply, and they have to release the majority of moroccans retained in the camps to regain morocco thier mother country.
Mauritania was part of morocco, chack the history before you show up your ignorance, and part of the actual Senegal, morocco was claiming his territories simply, the support of other powers against morocco, because is was the post ww2 situation know all those powers wants to repair thier mistakes regarding morocco, and the internation legality.
First,i would like to thank Mary Rizzo and Luis Portillo for the nice article on behalf of Sahrawi people from the occupied zone of western sahara and for their interest in our cause we are so happy when we think that you are on our side no matter what the pro-occupation of western sahara propaganda may say our cause is a just one and our right in self-determination shall never be ignored neither by their pre-paid propaganda on the net and media nor by their military services in the occupied zone we shall strive for our right untill the end.Concerning the Moroccan commenters or the DST stupid personnel i like to tell them that they have to quit making noise all over the net disguising behind Sahrawi,Moroccan saharawi or whatever your games are over the era of one channel is over and the truth is known all over the world,i want to bring some dialogues between Sahrawi people right supporters and and stupid DST Moroccan inteligence employees to show you Mary Rizzo that they are here just to make noise by inventing new vocabulary such as the SAHRAWI UNIONISTS in order to convince the supporters of Sahrawi people right to give up supporting them,the bellow is from Global Voices comments in which a British archaeologist is in a dialogue with a DST Moroccan inteligence employee hidden behind a sahrawi name Ahmed Salem :
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/07/05/western-sahara-a-new-sahrawi-satellite-tv-station/
I hope that everyone who just heard about the cause of western sahara will search for the truth and the very roots of the conflict and not been lead astray by the propaganda because it is a cause of a people who suffer a lot and no body hear their about them.
Finally,thank you so much for the cute words Mr Luis Portillo and thanks are due also to Mary Rizzo and all the supporter of our legitimate right in self-determination.
It is really surprising to read some of the comments above, especially those coming seemingly from Moroccans or people who are in favour of Morocco’s position as to the longstanding conflicts in Western Sahara.
It is very surprising and shocking indeed that, in the 21st century, there are still people who have not been able to realise the fact that we, mainly in the west, have long ago left behind many centuries of dark ages in which absolute monarchs ruled by some metaphysical and supposedly divine rights, dominated vast areas and subjected many peoples to their cruel and inherently undemocratic rule.
Our forefathers strove a great deal to bring those dark pages of our history to an end, and thanks to their efforts we now enjoy our freedoms and live in democratic countries where sovereignty is invested in the people and exercised through their democratically elected representatives, not by an absolute monarch that rules, reigns and has rights over everything spiritual and material.
These are fundamental facts of which implications universally some people unfortunately seem unable to comprehend. Any sensible man or woman who genuinely believes in democracy, equality and human dignity will readily understand why the small people of Western Sahara continue to reject to be ruled by the autocratic and absolute monarchy in Morocco.
The fact, which many Moroccans and other like-minded people, do not want to see or talk about, is that Morocco is still ruled by one of the few remaining absolute monarchies in the world. Where in the world do you see a country in which the monarch rules and reigns, and whose poor subjects, including his ministers and senior officials, are under obligation to bow before him and pathetically kiss his hand? Where in the world is questioning the monarchical system is a sacrilegious act that implies death penalty? I know of no other country save Morocco that fits the bill.
It is an incontestable fact that Morocco is still ruled by a feudal system at the helm of which is a monarch that rules on the basis of some highly questionable divine right (exactly as monarchs ruled in middle-age Europe!), and has royal prerogatives to appoint ministers and dismisses them at will. He also can dissolve the ‘parliament’ of his majesty and rule by decrees. Above all, he is accountable to no one!
Morocco is a country where more than 50% of the population is illiterate (of which 70% are women), and where a large part of the young population is unemployed. Many of those youngsters are forced to flee their miserable lives in Morocco and risk their lives trying to reach Europe. Morocco is also a country where the dramatically deteriorating social-economic situation of many people has become a fertile ground for radical and home-grown terrorist groups. This is, indeed, the real Morocco that many people seem unable to see and decry.
It will certainly be more productive for these understandably Moroccan nationalists to look inward and try to structurally reform their political system and improve the lives of millions of Moroccans, instead of reproducing the discourses of autocratic ruling elite, with no regard for the welfare of its own people.
As an outsider with some knowledge in the politics of the region, and mainly someone who believes in and cherishes the values of democracy and human rights, I understand very well and advocate the demand of the people of Western Sahara to live in a free and democratic state. I also understand why they have resisted to be ruled by Morocco, because simply no enlightened and democratic mind in the world can tolerate—let alone allow to be ruled by—an authoritarian and undemocratic regime as the one ruling in Morocco.
Simon Rodriguez
Ok, dear moroccan friend
According to your words (Jalal and "moroccan Sahrawi," are the same person), we are the liars, we are the manipulators, we are the ignorant, we are the ones who invent the history, we are the ones who commit human rights abuses against innocent civilians, we are the ones who raped and battered women in the occupied territories of Western Sahara, we are the ones who bombed women and children with napalm, we are the ones who launched a Sahrawi prisoners from planes, and so many others .
If you think all this is true why did not provide evidence and stop manipulating. The free citizens know how to find out and to research by themselves without manipulation of Makhzanian lackeys.
We are satisfied if you give us a Security Council resolution (only one) that affirms the sovereignty of Morocco over the occupied territories of Western Sahara. You should remember that the UN is not formed only by Spain and Algeria.
Give us a piece of graphic evidence of human rights abuses like those committed in the District of Maatalla (Aaiún), in Esmara or Dakhla (Western Sahara).
Tell us why Morocco does not allow an Inquiry Committee of the European Parliament (It is not just Spain) as regards Human Rights visit the occupied territories.
Tell us why there is a long list of Saharawis Human Rights Activists and Political Prisoners detained in Moroccan prisons. [check Human Rights Watch list]
We have evidence that the Moroccan authorities committed all these abuses.
By the way, if you acknowledge the existence of Western Sahara, you're acknowledging the existence of a sovereign country outside the Moroccan kingdom. It’s only the beginning, but it’s better than nothing.
WE WILL NOT GIVE UP THE FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS UNTIL THE VICTORY FOR EVER!
SAHARAWI YOUTH ASSOCIATION
Dear Mary,
I read your article and the thing I can say is you are definitely wrong on associating the fight of Polisario leaders to the palestinian one. The article is published in a blog supposed to support this noble cause of PALESTINE. The cause who unified the muslim and arab world. The Polisario fight is not recognized by the arab ligue neither by the majority of muslim countries except….Algeria. Polisario fight didn't unify the arab/muslim world.
You are definitely wrong when you associate the fight of unionist sahraouis to re-stablish the truth of the Western Sahara issue to the Makhzen. The Polisario leaders and their supporters were alone on the Internet to make their propaganda about their fight for independence. You will be wrong if you don't take into account the genesis of the Polisario. By whom the polisario was created and for what? What was the initial fight of Polisario? these questions are essentiel to answer to. When you think Polisario you must think cold war. Polisario were presented on Internet as the unique representative of the Sahraouis in Western Sahara. They misled the world on saying that all the sahraouis were refugees after the green march while the majority of them are still living in peace and harmony in the region. You will be wrong if you stay on the spell of VICTIMIZATION. You must take into account the views of the unionist sahraouis, those who are participating to the political life of Morocco and Western Sahara, to the social life of the region, those who are human rights activists whitout claiming independence. The ones who have high positions in the moroccan administration, those who are ambassadors, those who are seating in the moroccan parliament (2 houses), those who are making businesses in Western Sahara and outside of Western Sahara and finally the ones seating in CORCAS (www.corcas.com). You will be wrong or dishonest if you don't take into account the views of these people.
You are wrong when you say the polisario fight started in 1960 !! king Hassan asked the UN to consider the region as a non self-governing territory. Polisario leaders have nothing to do with the actual statute of the region. Unfortunately, they misled the world about this important detail of the history.
Then you are wrong when you talk about Felipe Gonzales. We all know that he changed his view about the Polisario fight after 1976.
You are also wrong when you talk about the PERSONAL views of a militray from the Minurso. I know many others who were thinking that Polisario are 'mercenaires' and that they are selling aids in Mauritania and Mali. The Minurso knows very well these facts but diplomacy is diplomacy and Algeria is on the road.
You are wrong if you think that the talks are unequal. The problem is between Algeria and Morocco and it started during the cold war. Polisario was a mean of pressure on the moroccans. Western countries know that and that's why they are supporting the moroccan proposal for autonomy.
You seem to be new supporter of polisario fight. My advise to you would be to work on finding a realistic solution to end the sufferings of sahraouis people in Tindouf camps not to return back to unrealistic solutions. We all need to move forward to find a solution to end this absurd cold war conflict not to light the fire of WAR. I am maybe more concerned than you about War and terrorism because I am simply from the region. The unionist sahraouis, the separatists as well as the Diaspora must work all together to manage the local affairs. The autonomy plan seem to be a good basis to find a definitive solution. Anything else would be dishonestly a waste of time and lack of logic.
I personally as all the unionists in Western Sahara feel more confident with the moroccan government than the algerian one. We don't want to be under the protectorate of a communist/socialist country. We want freedom and peace!
Ahmed Salem
Unionist Sahraoui and proud of it
Mohamed or mohamed, you continue diffamating. That's your sole arm against the truth of hundred thousands of sahraouis living in Western Sahara. Now that unionist sahraouis are talking on Internet you are becoming CRAZY about DST. I believe associating my posts to DST means my posts heard a bit. I am happy with that! My efforts to explain to international people there are many other sahraouis who were absent from Internet for more than a decade serve the truth about Western sahara issue. For more than a decade, mohamed and his collegues were liying and propagating wrong or incomplete information about Western Sahara issue. Mohamed or mohamed and his collegues are probably working for the algerian military secret services but that's not the real problem. The most important one is to stop the sufferings of sahraoui people in the camps of shame backed and supported by Algeria. As unionist sahraouis seem to be more concerned by the issue than the separatists as well as the supporters, they are working on finding a definitve solution to end this absurd cold war conflict. They worked on the autonomy initiative and they are talking on the name of the unionists in Manhasset talks.
Shame on darkness, down the historical lie of Polisario !
Long life to the sahraouis, the unionists, the sahraouis living in tindouf camps and the diaspora !
Hello
I have been a little shocked after reading about "realism" in a pro-palestinian blog -of course, coming from a Moroccoan supporter or, as he prefers to call himself, an "unionist sahraoui". It seems that after so many years ignoring the United Nations and the International Law, the USA and their serfs decide to substitute them by the doctrine of "realism", which can be more practical to crush the resistances against imperialism. Ahmed Salem Amr Khaddad, if you pretend to support Palastine you should considerate only the fairness of saharaui struggle, and not if it is or not "realistic" from the USA perspective. Unless you prefer to support the USA imperialism around the world -but then, don't have the cheek to say you support Palastine. As the Moroccoan Saharaui said before, USA and Morocco are in good relations since centuries ago. But their relations become even closer with the israelien lobby in favour of Morocco in the Western Sahara conflict, as Morocco and Israel are great allies since a long time ago. Once you know the international position of Morocco, you can keep saying you support Palastine but it's a funny way to do it.
At least, you defend your country of the danger of Socialism! It's much better to have a sacred monarchy, known by her respect of human rights, doens't it?? Independent economists have found out that Morocco would be a developped country if your king didn't spent such an incredible amount of money in paying more than 300.000 soldiers in his southern properties. Moroccoans use to dislike the king but to support his imperialist policy, which is at the expense of the moroccoan people.
When I was in the refugee camps for the first time, six years ago, I got impressed by the dignity and courage of this great people who are waiting for justice since more than thirty years ago. That's a shame for the International Community but specially for Spain, which has been taking profit of this situation since more than thirty years ago, in spite of its responsability to carry out the referendum that it promised to the Saharaui people, the United Nations and the OAU.
Long live to Saharaui people!!!!
Same old story with the same Moroccan propagandist i will just quote you your dear friend Dr.Nick reply for your comment because you seem to like turning in the same empty circle again and again so let's start:
Dear Ahmed Salem;
Thanks for your response. I’m trying not to get involved in arguments about who are the good guys and who are the bad guys here, as it’s not helpful in this context. There is plenty of that all over the web.
I will that I’m wary of anyone who claims to know “what is really going on”, when that reflects and/or supports the propaganda line of an occupying power. Sure, some Sahrawi may support the occupation or, more likely, believe that the best way forward is to engage with it constructively in order to make progress in terms of social and economic conditions for the Sahrawi living in the occupied areas.
However, this is one view only, and it is a view not universally held within the Sahrawi community living in the Moroccan-controlled zone, and held by very few of the exiles/diaspora, as far as I can see from my contact with Saharawi living outside of Morocco’s control.
I would be very sceptical of taking anything on the CORCAS website, or on websites linked to from it, at face value, simply because the CORCAS website is full of pro-Morocco and anti-Polisario propaganda. This is a pity, as it undermines the credibilty of those Sahrawi who would like to engage constructively with Morocco in the context of its occupation of Western Saahara, by making them look like Moroccan government stooges. I’m not suggesting that all those who support Morocco’s autonomy plan are Moroccan government stooges, but it certainly looks this way from the material on the web. My advice to them would be to stop all the mud slinging at the Polisario, who aren’t perfect, but who aren’t the two-dimensional monsters portrayed by the pro-autonomy camp.
Anyway, all that aside, I welcome the opportunity to engage with someone from “the other side” who is prepared to engage with me, despite my support for idea of a referendum and, ultimately, independence for Western Sahara (reflecting the views of my Sahrawi friends and colleagues, and of those Sahrawi I have met).
I’d like to ask you a few questions, relating to the autonomy plan. I’m not trying to be provocative – I really would like to have some answers to these, as I have not managed to get any from the pro-autonomy camp so far.
1. Under the autonomy plan, what is proposed for the areas currently under the control of the Polisario? Are these to be left as a rump Sahrawi state governed by the Polisario? Are the they to be incorporated into the “Moroccan Sahara” by force? Or does the autonomy plan depend on the Polisario agreeing to relinquish control of these areas?
2. Under the plan, what is proposed for the refugees in Tindouf? Are they to be offered the right of return? If so, what plans are being made to accommodate them, in terms of investment in housing and other infrastructure?
3. How will the plan engage with the Polisario? Will it simply ignore them as long as they continue to insist that any referendum should include the option of full independence, alongside the options of full integration into Morocco and limited autonomy within a greater Morocco?
These are crucial questions, on which the success and legitimacy of the autonomy plan will depend, and I have not seen them addressed by anyone who supports the autonomy plan. This has made me wonder whether the plan is really a serious initiative, or simply a PR exercise. Unless these questions are addressed properly, the plan will simply make the partition of Western Sahara official, which will leave Morocco with a potentially hostile Sahrawi state on its doorstep, which I assume it does not see as desirable.
Anyway, I await your comments with interest.
Regards
Nick
Dear mohamed or Mohamed, that's what we call propaganda with less effort
. You are thinking more of your vacation than your job, isn't it? Anyway, it's not a fair to post Nick' post without posting my response. By the way, did you care of Nick copyright before using his words. Here was my response :
Dear Nick, (part 1)
Many thanks again for your interest on Western Sahara issue.
You are right when you say that there are many urls on Internet treating the issue. I believe most of them support the pro-polisario position of the conflict. Well, in Morocco we made an historical mistake in calling Western Sahara ‘Moroccan Sahara’. This mistake didn’t help in the referencing process of search engines like Google & co. In such case and during a long time, the Moroccan government was seen as colonialist, imperialist…when propaganda is associated to this fact the issue becomes something horrible to individuals (researchers, students, politics…). People on Internet got a unique view of the situation. People on Internet thought that the Polisario leaders are the unique representative of sahraouis in Western Sahara. With the establishment of CORCAS in 2006, the world discovered finally that there are many other sahraouis who are unionists and proud of it. The chairman and the secretary general of CORCAS are the spokesman of the Moroccan delegation in Manhasset talks.
You don’t believe the CORCAS. I personally believe on the CORCAS efforts to develop the region more than the polisario leaders. The CORCAS is pushing the limits of the Moroccan government. Many sessions were held with many ministers to establish court term development programmes (habitation, health, agriculture and fishing…). The king is personally making the follow-up of these projects. We, unionists, are happy with the new strategy of the king to end this absurd cold war conflict. That was not the case of the former king.
(Part 2)
I disagree with you about the term “occupying power”, you could say it if all the sahraouis were fighting for independence. That is not the case. The majority of sahraouis are unionists. There are some separatists but they are very few.
As you probably don’t know the message of CORCAS as all the unionists to Polisario leaders is clear. Let’s govern all together under the Moroccan sovereignty. The CORCAS is always asking the Polisario leaders to be realistic and visionary. The CORCAS has never attacked the Polisario leaders in his websites. CORCAS is just relating what is really happening in Western Sahara. There is no propaganda on relating the truth.
You met probably some sahraouis supporting separatism in Western Sahara but did you meet others who were imprisoned in the camps of Tindouf because of their opposition to the actual leaders? Did you meet sahraouis representing the region in the Moroccan parliament, sahraouis making businesses and developing the region, NGOs participating to the social life of Western Sahara? Did you meet sahraouis fighting for more democracy and freedom without claiming independence? I am sure no. In such case, you can’t have a balanced view of the situation.
Regarding your questions, here are my answers:
1. First, the area dishonestly called ‘liberated zones’ by Polisario is a buffer zone agreed between the two parties on the ceasefire in 1991. When the Polisario leaders make festivities in this area, they go against what is agreed on the ceasefire document. The MINURSO is always asked by Morocco to re-establish its authority in the region. The Berm was held to protect the unionist sahraouis from the attacks of polisario leaders. FYI, during the war (1976 to 1991), the polisario militaries had the most sophisticated weapons of that time. They were made by the Soviet Union and sponsored by Lybia then by Algeria (the Soviet Union block in North Africa). King Hassan II made the right choice to support the American block. I am saying all the time that there was the wall of Berlin in Europe and the wall of Western Sahara in North Africa.
Western Sahara is not separated in two parts. It might be separated in Polisario leaders’ minds. For the UN, Western Sahara is the whole region. As the negotiations are made under the UN auspices, the MINURSO will first stop its activities after getting rid of mines along the Berm. The Berm will surely disappear because there would be no war threat anymore. So Western Sahara will be considered as a whole.
As you can imagine, this buffer zone is considered a Moroccan region in Morocco and you can get all information (demography…) you need on http://www.hcp.ma.
(Part 4)
2. FYI, Morocco has been welcoming the return of more than 7000 sahraouis living in the camps since 1976. Many leaders of the polisario returned back to Morocco. Many of them have high positions in the Moroccan parliament, government and departments. So, the right has been opened since the beginning. The role of CORCAS is to prepare the return of sahraouis in Tindouf camps. That’s why the CORCAS is meeting all ministers to prepare the return of sahraouis in Tindouf camps. Many things were done in Western Sahara and many others are expected for the 4 coming years. Look at http://www.sahara-developpement.com
3. The UN is clear in its resolutions. The solution must be political and acceptable by the two parties. Morocco neither Polisario will be forced. All is about negotiations and of course political pressure (to Algeria especially). Morocco is renouncing to the idea of full integration by proposing the autonomy initiative. Polisario leaders must renounce to independence and integrate the development process of Western Sahara in the autonomy context. The autonomy initiative is serious and credible as a basis to the negotiations. All western countries welcomed the Moroccan proposal. Thanks to the Moroccan proposal, the conflict is moving forward. Please look at the support of western countries on http://www.corcas.com
I wish all sahraouis, the unionists, the separatists and Diaspora will live all together in their motherland, Western Sahara. Morocco is preparing the return of all sahraouis living in the camps. First, the Polisario leaders must let the ones in the camps who are willing to return to Western Sahara. Then the negotiations must continue to convince the polisario leaders as well as the recalcitrants about the seriousness of the Moroccan proposal.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
PS: don’t be so doubter about the CORCAS. They are maybe more sahraouis than the leader of Polisario, Mohamed Abdelaziz, a Moroccan native (not far from Marrakech).
You never can trust on Marocco, they are imperialist, just imperialist. They breach all agreement, the referendum agreement (1991), the Baker agreement, which I was against it because only saharauis should vote and should decide what they want to be. Marocco breach every agreement from the beggining (1975) and even before. The right of independence and how they want to live should be voted only by saharauis, true saharauis, not maroccan saharauis. Only there is a solution, it's called Referendum, which has been sign by Marocco in 1991. In Marocco there is no democracy, just a false democracy, why is there so many people in prison? Why don't they allow the people to make demostrations against the regime, against the represion, against the poverty, etc? I don't need to add any historical information in order to demostrate that there is no relationship with Marocco, historical relationship or souvereignity. You only have to check the websites that Luis Portillo has given you, you only have to check the United Nations websites, yes, the websites that annoy you so much because they say the truth. Do you think that so many international organizations are silly? They spend so much money and time for our independence because we have the right. What right marocco has of us? right of represion, right of unfreedom? right of ilegally occupation? right of stealing resources?I don't want and I don't like those kind of rights. I only want right of freedom, independence, right for managing our own natural resources and right to decide our future.Leave our territory, go back to your Marocco, care your people, help the poors and the people who need better life in Marocco, give them education and let them to be democratic. Why so many moroccans have to leave their own country? When so many people leave their own country something bad is happening, not precisely good. There are many maroccans who want a free and independent Western Sahara also because they see that the occupation doesn't allow them to get an employment, good quality of life, education or good sanitary sistem. Also they don't allow the maroccan gouvernment to manipulate them and to change their mind, they are fighting very hardly to get their minimal rights such as education and fredom of expression. Our right is the independence and freedom as Palastina, but we have two big problems, they are called Marocco and Isreal respectively and the Western countries which look for the economical agreement. The saharauis and Polisario Front are good team because we don't practice terrorism and we don't need it. The terrorism that there is in Marocco and in Algeria is the same and is bad for both countries. Polisario front fortunatelly never practices terrorism because we don't need to do that. Freedom and independence for Western Sahara. Sáhara y Palestina libre e independiente ya!
Referendum now.
to B
to BCHIR SAHARAWI, you are so smart, you discovered that i'am oroccan saharawi! lol if you read carfully you will find out that when i replied to Rizzo, i mentioned that i said in the past and with my true name , i never posted before, exect with Moroccan saharawi, SO yes my name is jalal nai and i'am morccan saharawi, i can see that maybe the one who acuses other could be the gelty guy!
so maybe you are the one who post many comments using an IP generator, so when you deal with people smarter than you, keep quit stupic acusations.
for Mr Rodriguez, it good and so rare to find a Spanish expressing himself so well in english, aprat this you can wirte whatever you want, invent the lies you want, but keep only one thing in mind, Morocco is the only real democracy, in this region, in the moroccan sahara we went to vote for our people, last time, spain is so "not leving in dark ages!" why you don't give to the pais vasco thier independence?
they have the right to self determination? no!
Franco gave back to morocoo his territory and signed for, did you forget this real and non discutable fact, check the UN documentations, and the spanish prime minster,he recognized the morccanty of the desert, so stop this low cost game, you are playing with us, WE THE SAHARAWI are well represented by CORCA, that set, the majority of saharawis lives in moroccan desert, the few others in algeria, deal with it, and the other bad reality, is that the moroccans retained in tindouf, are just a toy in some polisario tribes which get millions of euros and get good holidays in spain and buy villas, ask the young polisario students in sapain; do you remember what happend las may in madrid, I ASK THIS BLOG POSTER TO CHECK IN THE PAPERS OF THE MADRID UNIVERSITY MEETINGS ABOUT THE WESTERN SAHARA YOU WILL BE SURPRISED?
i forget, there are no areas controled by Polisario stop dreaming.
Morocco control all those territories, and Read the UN cease fire, if you can read
it's easy to understand, tifarity and all the ares heyond the security berm is a free zone, and morocco last april told to polisario to free this zone as it's a UN controled, and polisario wanted to build a base of his merceners soldiers, morocco told him if you don't quit this region, you will asume all the responsability, and algeria knows as morocco told to the algerian regim, " if one bullet comes from algeria, morocco will attack algerian soil, to make this side clear" in hassan 2 policy he respected algeria by supporting the polisario terrorists, but thanks to this king, he said that if you support my enemy to atack me that's means yu atack me, and every one have to take his responsability'
@jalal nali:
Another but more stupid as he seems propagandist .. OHH please tell us what happened in Madrid,please keep your up-side-down history for you,you know i just want to advise you search for anything to discuss except politics especially the conflict of western sahara.Believe me you do not deserve those three lines.
@Ahmed Salem Amr Khaddad:
You said that the majority and i said may be all sahrawis are -as you describ them -in love with Morocco and could not live away from your tender kingdom, so why don’t you save time and money by organising a fair referendum for sahrawi people,how much separatists sahrawi -as you also describ them- could exist 5,10,20 per cent,why don’t you let those unionists vote for the annexation of western sahara to the tender kingdom?,the majority of sahrawi people here in Aaiun and all western sahara are calling for independance and the Moroccan security forces are punishing them and puting them in jails just because they call for their right in self-determination,the majority of sahrawi families or individuals here in Aaiun have been tortured by the Moroccan authorities , am wondering which sahara are you living in and talking about and which sahrawi people are you belonging to may be it does not belong to our planete.Am living in the occupied city of Aaiun and i can prove you that what you describ as the unionists are just sahrawi business men such as Khallihlhoom the head of CORCAS and former head of the spanish party PNS and his brother and many others who defend their business and their only cause and principle is making money,you know that they did the same with the former Spanish occupier before you,those businessmen and women got no principles at all just stealing western sahara sand,phosphates,fish with the Moroccan occupation.
It is useless to argue with people who are only willing to spread the propaganda of a feudal dictatorship that oppresses not only Saharawis but also its own people and has imperialist ambitious that, as confirmed by the Moroccan agents participating in this debate, do not stop at the border of the illegally occupied Western Sahara but would like to take hold of a sovereign state as Mauritania and part of another as Senegal. It is as though Spain would like to take hold now of Belgium, Holland, Naples and Sicily only because they were part, back in History, of the territories that payed allegiance to (and were invaded by) our former kings.
I myself have visited the camps and can tell to those Moroccan blinded by the propaganda of their regime that nobody, but the unfair occupation of their territory, retains them there. I have met people who are not terrorist, who are not manipulated, who are just tired of being deprived of their rights by the power in place in Morocco, supported by France and the US as long as it serves their imperialist ambitions: there is nothing but a small empire to be (Morocco) backed by the big actual Empire (US) and by a former colonialist power (France) that tries to retain a part of its former influence in Northern Africa (US). And all of that with the complicity of the former colonial administration (Spain) that betrayed the Saharawi people in its legitimate right to self-determination.
Viva el Sahara Libre. Down with Moroccan colonialism
Great propagandist mohamed,
I don't think you are living in Laayoune city but if you continue pretending that you are living there that shows clearly Internet access is free for everyone even for the ones supporting separatism in Western Sahara. Is that the case of sahraoui people living in Tindouf camps? simply no.
You mentioned that the majority of sahraouis in Western Sahara are supporting independence. What are the basis of these allegations? How could you say this? How much people participate to the strikes of 2005 and how did the riots started? There are few sponsored separatists who are manipulating unemployed people locally even if they are not originally sahraoui they became sahraouis when it fits the propaganda of the polisario. Stop your lie about the situation in Western Sahara. CORCAS has 141 members and all of them are working on developing the region. Don't focus on the chairman. When people work they got rewards and benefits for their job. Is that something against morality. Otherwise what about the villas of polisario leaders in Algeria and Las Palmas while people are sufferings from missing food and water. In western Sahara, there is no famine. The region has been developing since 1975.
Stop your propaganda, algerian you are or whatever, you are not serving the populations neither the region. Instead of wasting your time on diffamating and allegating, think of the best way to unify the forces of the unionists, the separatists and the Diaspora.
Long life to the sahraouis, the unionists, the sahraouis living in Tindouf camps and the Diaspora.
I am wishing to write several comments, but, unfortunately, I have no time before I accomplish other obligations. In any case, I'll do it as soon as possible.
For the moment, I only repeat the words of Mr. Prada: "The problem is that they do not hear, do not see, do not understand and do not want to understand". They only cry and repeat the Majzen's propaganda. They only suffer and spit the poisoning informative messages (“informative intoxication”) from Palace.
It is meaningless to try to speak with them: They are always the same people, charged by the Majzén (word coming from the French "magasin", my dear "moroccan-moroccan"), to repeat and to repeat the samething until lies become truth, just the same as Goebbels and Mr. Bush, making only noise. You will find them everywhere on tne net.
It is much better to contribute to the debate with documented facts. Though not completed, here are some:
"Spanish judge to open inquest into suspected atrocities against North African Saharawi people"
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/30/europe/EU-GEN-Spain-Atrocity-Inquest.php
EMHAMED KHADAD (The Wall Street Journal):
Western Sahara must be brought out of the margins and into the light.
The core of the issue is that Western Sahara has never been recognized as being part of Morocco by any country or international body. It's a position confirmed in an advisory ruling by the International Court of Justice, which concluded Morocco has no valid legal claims on Western Sahara.
By contrast, Western Sahara's indigenous government, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, is recognized by 80 countries and is a member of the African Union.
"Offering" an autonomy arrangement therefore to an illegally occupied region, complete with its own functioning political, social and economic infrastructure independent of the occupier, is utterly devoid of logic and undermines the very foundation of MINURSO and of the U.N. itself.
A democratic proposal has been made, backed by the U.N. in the 1991 peace plan, and agreed upon by both Morocco and POLISARIO. That plan envisages, as the final stage of the process, a full referendum on self-determination.
STEPHEN ZUNES (Professor of Politics at the University of California):
Should Baker's proposal be accepted, it could not only provoke a regional war but would also set a dangerous precedent of rewarding the conquest of territory by force and likely embolden potential aggressors around the world. As with the analogous case of East Timor, it may take a mass mobilization by human rights activists around the world to force the major powers to allow the UN to enforce its obligations and allow an oppressed people their right to self-determination.
FRANK RUDDY (former US ambassador and Vice-President of MINURSO):
After the September 11 terrorist attacks in New York, people all over the world said: “We are all New Yorkers now.” (…) I would hope that some day we might hear some one say: “We are all Saharawis now.”
Even if not in English, it can be useful for someone to know tha ALL the Public Universities from Madrid have issued a "Manifest" supporting the Sahrawi People (it is being translated into several languages):
"Manifiesto De Las Universidades Publicas Madrileñas Sobre El Sahara Occidental"
http://www.uam.es/otros/uamsolidaria/manifiesto_sahara_2008.pdf
By the way, my "moroccan-moroccan" friends: The Spanish Governements (several), unfortunately, DO NOT support either the POLISARIO Front nor the Sahrawi People. It is the Spanish People (with capital letter) who are fighting against our own leaders and helping and supporting the struggle of the Sahrawi people
You are in a big error.
Cheers. I will try to come back soon.
JACOB MUNDY:
In 1976 the renowned scholar of international law, Thomas Franck, rightly described US policy during the crisis as “an act of political expediency grounded in East/West political alliances.” Much the same could be said about US’s “neutral” policy towards the Western Sahara conflict today, if not other conflicts involving suppressed national self-determination. The only difference between 1975 and 2005 is the justificatory geo-political context, from cold war to war on terror, where we are led to believe that our avowed neutrality is a luxury we cannot yet afford. But the persistence of the Western Sahara conflict demonstrates the shortcomings of US’s “neutral” Saharan policy. Not that Washington has realised this in the past 30 years.
Thus the U.S. government should take a two-track approach in its relations with Morocco: supporting self-determination in Western Sahara on the one hand while supporting Moroccan stability and reforms on the other. In other words, Washington should decouple support for Rabat from support for the occupation of Western Sahara. The U.S. Congress should reaffirm its support for U.S. initiatives aimed at supporting Moroccan stability and internal democratization processes. But Congress should simultaneously press the White House to support self-determination in Western Sahara. None of this, however, will be possible without political will. International, grassroots, faith- and community-based organizations will have to create broader awareness of the problem in the United States. Such pressure helped bring a peaceful end to apartheid in South Africa and was key to ending Indonesia’s occupation of East Timor.
First of all, I would like to say that it seems some people have not read the article because they have not learned the title: HYPOCRITES!!!
Talk of suffering in the Camps. Do you have a clue about what you are talking about?! Or just be led by CORCAS propaganda. We, the people who live here, in refugee camps and exile, suffer banishment from our homes every day for more than 33 years, but even then we have the firm conviction that we will not stop until we achieve our self-determination.
Hypocrites are those who try to talk about the suffering of refugees while they are committing abuses against civilians, Human Rights activists, students, men and women in the Occupied Territories:
[Check out one of these links. You can find out how is the Sahrawis life in Occupied Territories]
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=l9wagLPd5t8&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ADhRUIESBxg&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=O2GizzvgZbg&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5zfF-azTo&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5zfF-azTo&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RmQAwJ0s0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=XpOpKANOUVI&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tp4c-YvjUck&feature=related
The only realism here is our struggle for more than 35 years, first against Spanish colonialism, then against the Moroccan invasion.
The only realism is that of our people killed, tortured and raped in the past and up to the present time.[According to latest news, more than 60 fishermen of the Saharan town of Dakhla Occupied have been tortured and had their belongings burnt down by Moroccan settlers, and all this before the passivity of the Moroccan police.] http://www.upes.org/body1_eng.asp?field=sosio_eng&id=1087
The only realism here is what the Moroccan strategy tries to introduce through the CORCAS (Royal Consultative Council for Saharan Affairs), [the name says everything] led by corrupt people as Khalihanna (khalih-elkum, Khouia!) Ould El Rashid, who has been investigated by plots of corruption.
Hypocrites are those who pretend to be friends, false Sahrawis (in fact, they are Moroccan settlers), but do not know that: A real Sahrawi will not allow torturing another Sahrawi. A Sahrawi will never allow the assassination of a Sahrawi brother because he defends his rights. A Sahrawi will not allow women abuse and rape, as he will never allow that with any person. A real Sahrawi will always with his head held high and will never kiss the foot or hands of anyone, not like you do with your king! La 'ilaha 'illa Allah wahdahu la sharika lahu!
Oh man, where’s your dignity?! Answer the questions and don't beat about the bush!
Salama M.
I realise how dramatic the issue is and just why it has never been resolved by the comments here, and I think it is giving people who are new to the issue an opportunity to learn about it and reflect upon it. You are providing those of us who are marginally aware of the situation with important information. Thanks to all of those who support the choice of putting the Sahrawi struggle on a Pro-Palestinian blog. Thanks to everyone for the opportunity to follow a debate that we are often left out of because of the language difficulties. I myself was familiar with the issue through Italians, and most of the material I had available was in Italian. I understand how difficult it must be to conduct this debate in English because I have discovered in this week a wide range of information, most of it in Spanish or French, so I appreciate the efforts all of you have made to involve the readers here. Thanks for the links as well! I've checked out some great sites and will be looking into more when time permits.
Parlons claire: Toute le probleme du Sahara Occidental est artificiel, meme si ses victimes sont bien reeles et humaines. Le probleme a ete cree par la France il y a deja beaucoup de temps et cela est bien connu tant a Paris qu'a Rabat. L'origine de la "question" dite du Sahara Occidental surgisse au moment ou les generaux coloniaux francaises se reconnaissent dans l'incapacite de soumetre les saharaouis, proteges alors par l'España. En vue du quel, quant le moment arrive, l'Etat Majeur francais opte pour "ajouter" le Sahara Occidental au Maroc. De cette facon la France pretende tuer deux oisseaux d'un seul tir: "solucionne-t-elle" le probleme histórique, que la propre Francia a avec le Maroc et, au meme temps, eface de la carte a "l'insumis" peuple saharaoui. Aprés toute cela, il arrive la gran mascarade: en profitan de l'agonie du general dictateur Franco en Espagne, Hassan II s'execute: soutenu por le gran avocat de la France, demande la Cour International de Justice (Il se moquera par aprés de l'Avis juridique de cela), prepare sa Marche Vert (derriere laquelle il oculte aux media mondiaux la penetratión de son armée au Sahara Occidental), simule une negotiación avec les poulardes de Madrid et recois, finalment, les cles de la ville a El Aaiun. J'ai le regret mes amis francaises, mais la realite est parfois de trop cruelle: cest cela qu'on fait quelques de vos líders et non precissemente le general De Gaulle. Cela signifie que ceux qui doivent s'assoir a table pour de negotiations sont en realité la France et le Maroc. Ils doivent faire marche arriere, retrouver le point cruciaux, chercher une solution correcte au conflicte entre eux deux. Mais non sur le dos d'un tiers (une tres maivais habitude de la diplomatie francaise) et moins encore sur le dos du peuple saharaui. Voila toute en claire.
for Mohamad, you have a typical polisario terrorist mind, once you find some one who own the truth, nd want to discover you big lie, you acuse him to turn the history upside down, many local and known spanish paper wrote about this issue, so is not just Madrid, is hundreds of other big lies discovery, is why all the big powers support the moroccan right, and the real truth, every one knows that polisario is an Algerian invention, so for the billions ofeuros spent by the algeria corrupted regime to support a false cause, it's clear and simple, the saharawi people(the majority) we have our own representative CORCA, polisario represnet him self, is what all the polisario youth believe, (you know the truth and you hide it) stop this mascarade
Jalal, it is very wrong (not to mention inconsiderate) to accuse Mohamad in this way. If you wish for your own point to come across, you will do your own cause better service by not accusing those who do not see your way as having a terrorist mind, being liars or paid agents.
You assume all of us are, and this may be projection?
@popader:
You have first to unit your false propaganda because some of you say that the Polisario was made by Spain and Algeria as the so called Ahmed Salem said:
"People who are living in the camps were displaced by military trucks. It’s an established fact. They didn’t come by foot as Polisario leaders try to convey on Internet and during the visit of the museum. Polisario with the help of the Algerians and the benediction of the Spanish transported sahraoui people from Western Sahara to the camps of Tindouf by force. As I said above people are managed by “militarycracy”. Nobody can express his viewpoint without getting bitted and persecuted."
Your approach is different ,you relate Polisario to the French regime i think it is so interesting because it is totally abreaking news,i hope first you have to make a unification of lies before making great propaganda.
I have already said that is very difficult to speak (to debate) with some people. They only make (repeat) assertions ("consignas" in Spanish) without proving nothing at all.
First, terrorism, State terrorism, is what Morocco has done, and does even today in the occupied territories, with the Sahrawi people (not to speak, for example, of the recents "events" in SIDI IFNI). Terrorism, State terrorismo is what Washington-Bush (Mohamed VI' allie) has done with IRAK (and in so many places: Nicaragua, Chile…), with the present cosequences for the whole world.
Second, the POLISARIO Front is acnowledged -by United Nations, the Security Council, the African Union and, last but not least, also by the U.S.A) as the true, legitime representative of the Sahrawi People.
So, a little more of truh and "rigor" in your assertions, please.
It would be better to check some international documents before speaking.
I see the same thing day after day when those who attempt to discredit the legitimate struggle of the Palestinians and other people who have territory occupied by Israel such as those in the Golan and Lebanon at the Sheeba Farms try to say they are manipulated by (take your pick) Iran, Radical Fanatical Religious Leaders, Syria, The Muslim Brotherhood, and if all of that fails, they decide to link them to organisations that are considered to be terrorist, (if they are indeed real, as Nahr el Bared teaches us, the group that infiltrated the camp were perhaps placed there by some Lebanese interests that seek to rid Lebanon of the camps near nice seaside areas for real estate development). If they can't get through with the phanta-politics, they attack you as a terrorist yourself! This generally scares many off, and the situation remains firmly managed by the pro-Israel camp.
All kinds of arguments will do to stop Palestine rights campaigners from voicing the issues, so I don't imagine it is different for other liberation struggles, if it were, we would not have any occupation at all and refugees would be a quaint word from a colonial past…. what matters is to confuse things for those who are not very informed with the aim of keeping them out of it because it is "complicated". Unfortunately for us, most of the material on the Sahrawi is not in English and it is quite a challenge to know the background, much less the actual situation as we speak!
All I can say is this, (from my own experience) the Sahrawi people I met were poor economically, but internally, they were rich and beautiful. They need relief from the current situation they are in, and this means that their necessities must be met, which is not happening.
@Mary rizzo:
They have tried so hardly to make the international community believes that the Sahrawi people are just terrorists by relating some terrorism attacks in north Africa to the Polisario:
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=18858
Before that they spreaded all over the world that we are just a group of communists backed by Algeria and the Soviet Union as stated on of them in GV:
"Their first fight was to help on plotting the monarchy to establish a communist regime in the WHOLE COUNTRY. In their initial fight, there was no separation between Western Sahara and the rest of the country. The first step was maybe Western Sahara but the second one was unified communist Morocco under the control of the Soviet Union block."
But their accusations will never work because we fight for our right in self-determination and we has always condemned all acts of terror:
STATEMENT
Brussels 12th September 2004
On the occasion of the tragic anniversary of the terror attacks on New York and Washington, the Frente POLISARIO and the Saharawi people would like to join the American people and all world nations in expressing once again their deepest solidarity and sympathy with the families of those who lost their lives in those attacks, and with all victims of terrorism throughout the world.
The Frente POLISARIO, which has always condemned all acts of terror, would like to reiterate anew its vehement denunciation of terrorism, which constitutes a horrendous onslaught on innocent people as well as on the sacred values of respect for human life and dignity, freedom and peace.
It is on these values that the Saharawi people, and their legitimate representative the Frente POLISARIO, have always drawn in their struggle against the Moroccan oppression and military occupation, as well as in their tireless efforts to establish a free, open an democratic state in Western Sahara. For three decades, the Saharawi people have been affirming their will to attain, through peaceful means, their legitimate rights to self-determination and sovereignty. This is what has earned the Frente POLISARIO the respect as a national liberation movement that has never been associated with any form of terrorism.
Another fact that bears testimony to the Saharawi people's attachment to peace consists in the acceptance by the Frente POLISARIO of Baker's peace plan with a view to brining about a peaceful, just and definitive solution to the conflict in Western Sahara within the framework of UN relevant resolutions and in consonance with the dictates of international legality.
The Saharawi people remain hopeful that the international community would act resolutely in order to enable them to exercise their inalienable right to self-determination and independence. Backing the peaceful struggle of the Saharawi people for attaining their legitimate rights is inseparable from the fight against injustice, oppression and terrorism; it is also intrinsic to the defence of the ideals of justice, democracy and freedom that are upheld by all free nations.
Mohamed Sidati
Minister delegate for Europe
Member of the National Secretariat POLISARIO Front
First we are in 2008 not in 2004. The UN made new resolutions to move forward on the issue to end the sufferings of sahraoui people in the camps of shame (Tindouf). The UN points out more the humanitarian issue than any other political considerations. The personal envoy Van Walsum thinks unbearable that people support separatism from outside the camps "Come and live in the camps to see how things are going".
Stupid Mohamed (I said stupid because you said it before), if there are different views about the situation that means there is no organized propaganda. The propaganda is when you try to lie on the place you live. When you mention that you live in Laayoune with your level of english, you simply lie. You are the one who is propagating. Relating the truth is not propaganda. To know more about the region, here are some websites made by unionist sahraouis. They relate the truth about Western Sahara :
http://www.corcas.com (the support of the international community to the autonomy initiative)
http://www.sahara-online.net (see maps and the history of the conflict lived and narrated by former founders of the polisario)
http://www.sahara-culture.com (Western Sahara culture)
http://www.sahara-villes.com (views of the main cities of Western Sahara)
http://www.sahara-developpement.com (economic development of Western Sahara)
http://www.sahara-social.com (social development of Western Sahara)
I can believe you guys when it comes from SPS, that is not considered propaganda but when it comes from moroccan sources it's systematically considered propaganda. To have a real view of the conflict, you must know more about the genesis of the polisario and the relationship of the polisario fight to the cold war.
Please Mary, do not misled people associating the Palestinian fight to the Polisario one :
ALL the Palestinians are fighting for independence. In Western Sahara, SOME separatists are claiming independence. The majority of sahraouis are unionists. That's not the same. The context is definitely different. Anything else is about allegation and pro-polisario propaganda. The Palestinian fight is unifying the islamic/arabic world. The Polisario fight isn't. The decolonization process of Western Sahara started in the 60. The Polisario was established in 1973 by moroccan opposants to the king Hassan.
You have all to come and see how international people are visiting Western Sahara to invest and joy vacations. There are some separatists but they are VERY VERY VERY FEW.
Then, Sidi Ifni isn't in the disputed region. Sidi Ifni people are more moroccan than any moroccan else. They were on strike with moroccan flags and king' photos. Polisario propaganda again tried to make a link of a so-called Intifada (what a shame !!!) with Sidi Ifni strikes while Sidi Ifni has nothing to do with Western Sahara limits. WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT? is that about propaganda or not?
Please all of you, you must be very prudent treating Western Sahara issue. There are unionists in Western Sahara and they are the majority. UNFORTUNATELY, they are not on the Internet to defend their views because they all don't speak english. I had the chance to do my studies abroad and learn english. The majority as I do are talking Spanish (Mohamed can't be sahraoui. He can't live in Laayoune)
I am not looking especially for your trust. I am trying to relate you another view of the conflict. The one supported and lived by the unionists.
Many thanks for your wisdom and your intellectual honesty.
Ahmed Salem
Mr Mohamed you are waisting your time, for decads you try and try and try, to do the poor defenceless people, please stop his cheap mascarade, you are just redicoulous, you bring some articls why you show always one side of the truth (the smalest one or just 10%) ad you hide the rest?
yes in morocco there are some well paid saharawi to do and to transmet the informations to polisario, the people from Moraccan Sahara, can access to internet, to tv, to the phone, the can talk, moroccan gouvernment give them pasports to go outside and come back safly, whatever they go to give information to polisario, we call this humain rights, and real freedom, how many humanitarian organisations, spock about the slavery and the women situation in tindouf, all he humanitarian org, when they go to tindouf, the polisario make the visit just some camps, and forget to bring them to the other camps 25 and 40km far from there, and why they never show them the polisario prisons,? whey they never make the international media go inside all the camps simply because the 80% of people living there want to come back to morocco, they are retained, and killed, and the polisario deport thier children to keep the family like prisoners in free space, so don't come to respectable blogs and split publicly your, low cost and empty of meaning allegations, i don't want to mention the Spanish people whome are neocolonialist who dream to keep a hand(influence) in the region by prolonging this problem, tourists in morocco can visit all the country from tangier to lagouira(mauritania border) and they can meet all the people they want, and talk to every one, i can put my hand in fire that in tindouf is not the same, any way the Agerian military have the head control of every thing, polisario just remot controlled, unfortunately Mary you have to talk to the Algerians, and ask they to visit the camps(all the camps) i know that whith this military corrupt (Algerian military took over the gouvenment by a state strik, and the spanish, aree afraid because thie ecnomy soon will be less competetive than moroccan, so they want to keep beeing the rich people of the region(not for long) we don't have oil but we have bright brains, and democratic basis.
always they come some those nosense article, and many links, written by people not really trustable, Algeria support polisario! in fact they support th Cold War ideology(manly rusia) is for that they didn't recognize cosovo (muslim state like them?
simply because the boss(russia) said SO, we can see that the are not really clear , once they defend (population for self determination once to are against??
so hope that will say more that Mr mohamad, the poor opressed (millioner in spanish euros) lol
Please stop Dreaming, Do you remeber last Year what Bush Said?
the Western Sahara issue should be discussed by Morocco and Algeria, so stop this and don't put words in the mouth of people whom never did. your President Franco, signed to give back the desert to morocco, but your Fashit Partido Popular is too afraid that once this issue solved morocco will be more enrgetic to ask about The Stolen Ceuta and Mellia, yes Let us discuss this Issue Mery, you have any Idea about those two moroccan cities disputed by spain and morocco, is like if you go from norway and take cities in the danish territory and say yes it's belongs to europe, so spain what they did, they give self governance to those two cities ander Spaniard rules, so stop your dark allegations,and be of legality side, and do you remember when Spain were atacked by the moors, yes they came from where? not from the desert?
and all the region from the actual senegal to the top city of morocco belged to morocco, i think you studied this in the univercity, i'am sure because i'am spanish graduat in Sevilla, so don't try to mitake the reader, the only blide here is your frustration, because morocco is recovring his strengt, and all European prefer to invest in morocco instead of spain, like CEO of Renaul said, we shoused morocco, because the people work really, and they never take any after lunch rest (siesta) lol
Human Rights in Western Sahara
I am contacting you to ask you to write to the Commissioner for External Relations, over the proposal to grant ‘advanced status’ to Morocco.
Morocco has occupied the major part of Western Sahara since 1975. Saharawi citizens who oppose the occupation are forced to live in intimidation and fear. There is extensive evidence of torture, rape, false imprisonment and unfair trials of Saharawi Citizens, documented by organisations such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and also by the report of the Office of the High Commissioner of Human Rights at the UN.
Despite this, the EU is considering further deepening its relationship and granting ‘advanced status’ to Morocco. It is an outrage that a body such as the EU, which holds human rights in such high regards can consider this without a full investigation into the human rights abuses.
Please will you write to the Commissioner for External Relations, Benita Fererro-Waldner, to ask that the EU upholds its fundamental principles of human rights and launches a full investigation into these human rights abuses perpetrated by the Moroccan authorities against Saharawi citizens.
Yours sincerely
To our morrocan friends, and to people who doesn't have a big idea about what's happening in Western Sahara, I would like to say that Morocco occupies the major part (not all! See UN maps) of its neighbouring country, Western Sahara. Entering into business deals with Moroccan companies or authorities in the occupied territories gives an impression of political legitimacy to the occupation. It also gives job opportunities to Moroccan settlers and income to the Moroccan government. Western Sahara Resource Watch demands foreign companies leave Western Sahara until a solution to the conflict is found, as the International Law says.
Best regards
To everyone who wants to see the current map of Western Sahara, check this link:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/68996459_1b48c7aa53.jpg
[United Nations Map of Western Sahara (Click "different sizes" on the right to see a higher-resolution version)]
In the 1980s the Moroccan armed forces began constructing defensive earthworks around key population centres and strategic locations. These were joined and extended, and now form a defensive wall (the "Berm", shown on the map as a red line) which extends for some 1500 km from southern Morocco and throughout Western Sahara to the border with Mauritania. This wall, manned by an estimated 160,000 Moroccan troops, divides Western Sahara into a Moroccan-occupied zone and a region controlled by the Polisario, known locally as the "Free Zone". The Berm as shown on this UN/MINURSO map is contained within the territory of Western Sahara; in reality the Berm transits through the far north-western corner of Mauritania, northwest of Bir Maghrein, annexing a small area of Mauritanian territory and separating the Northern and Southern Sectors of Western Sahara from each other. The Berm, and its transit through Maurtiania, is visible on Google Earth. However, the border between Western Sahara and Mauritania is effectively open, facilitating free movement betweeen the northern and southern sections of the Free Zone.
Morocco invaded Western Sahara in 1975 when Spain, the former colonial power, withdrew. Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara has never been formally recognised by any government (although many give support to Morocco) or by the United Nations, who have been attempting to organise a referendum on self-determination since 1991.
The Western Sahara Project study sites are in the Free Zone, which is administered by the Frente Polisario independence movement, from the Sahrawi refugee camps near Tindouf across the border in Algeria, home to some 160,000 displaced people. The refugees move freely between the camps and the Free Zone, for example in order to exploit pasture for animals when environmental conditions permit. However, there is little permanent settlement or occupation in the Free Zone due to a lack of water resources and the risk of renewed conflict.
The Frente Polisario are effectively the government of a state-in-exile – the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, which has been recognised by some 65 countries, including many African nations but none in the wealthy industrialised world, whose governments either maintain a studied indifference regarding the conflict or who actively support the Moroccan occupation (while not formally recognising Morocco's claim to Western Sahara). The most active supporters of the Moroccan occupation are France, the United States.
Links related in english:
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~e118/WS/wsahara.htm
http://nickbrooks.wordpress.com/
@Ahmed Salem Amr Khaddad
Concerning my being Sahrawi or not,i think it is up to the Minurso identification agents who delivered me a certification as a voter in a future referendum because my grand fathers lived on the territory before Spanish and Moroccan occupiers even knew about it ,in addition, am a future YES TO INDEPENDENCE voter.
Secondly,We are talking about terrorism not UN resolutions so please before replying you should read and re-read comments,all resolutions since the beginning of the conflict untill that day called for the right in self-determination of western sahara people but in vain because the U.S and France vetoed the enforcment of any of them as they did when the Security Council would have penalised Israel for the increasingly brutal occupation of Palestinian territories.
http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/12377
The democracy which i live in my daily life and that you are talking about is just what is taking place lately in Dakhla ,it is the real Moroccan democracy:
http://www.afrol.com/articles/29946
And the Moroccan race to arms in billions dollars deals that it is in need of in such critical period:
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL02360004
And what i have witnessed in the international day of human rights in the occupied zone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNMvuYRZZYw
So i think it's a shame to talk about democracy
@jalal nali:
you got a cute economic analysis for the conflict keep on jalal:
"and the spanish, aree afraid because thie ecnomy soon will be less competetive than moroccan, so they want to keep beeing the rich people of the region(not for long) we don’t have oil but we have bright brains, and democratic basis."
Really,as the Spanish saying states : NO HAY PIOR CIEGO QUE EL NO QUIERE VER,Y NO HAY PIOR SORDO QUE EL NO QUIERE OIR,Y NO HAY PIOR ESTUPIDO QUE EL NO QUIERE ENTENDER.
Mr Mohamad,
all the links you brought have no value, asian tribune reported wht they get from Algerian Media, lol
Afrol is an internet review controled by South african and some Polisario supporters, they never talks about morocco, only in negative ways, what ever moroccan economy in the best in africa(you now jalusy)
the same For Reuters south africa,lol,
and i kept the best for the last youtude, i can right now go out and make a video and send it in youtube and i can say what want, so it's simply not belivable.
hope you are well washed, with this truths, i invite you to my cost side house in Dakhla, to discuss, at the end of the day we are all moroccans.
Mary!
why some commenters have thier nick name in red and others in black? lol
why you don't check the IP addresses of all those people, if i can do it why ou can't, i can see that you are in the side of the polisario(it's ok) i respect your point of view, i think it's wrong and (simply you fell in the polisario game), the real internation right to help morocco to live in his territory since 1500 years(thanks god is what we are doing now), you can see that Mr Jesús and Jose Maria and Hamadi Sidi (Saharawi 100%)are the same person, if you want a fair discution you have to moderate not just me when i say that polisario are just terrorists, but you have to moderate others when they uses just this word when they find them selves stuck with no replay(propaganda) lol, you have to be faire, 'ok' you are not getting any mony from polisario, but some others around here i believe (yes they do) i will not repaly to the spanish frustration, or to the guy who write saharawi100% he means moroccan 100%, or the guy who bring us a link showing his stupidity, by explaianing that the red line is the border, lol.
All of you should know that moroccan army buit this wall to protect the moroccan saharawis from rapt and kidnapping from polisario, so the sahara belong to morocco entierly, and this zone between the security berm and the algerian border, is a zone free from human activity and was agreed by the two sides in the 1991 UN ceasefire, another fact polisario was planing (in a big propagandistic show) that they will construct infrastructures in the ( freed tifarity zone, lol) but once the UN told them this will break the ceasefire agreement) the polisario and algeria hurry up the run back to hide in tindouf camps, moroccan gouvernement, was clear this time, if there are any agression or non respect of the cease fire agreement, algeria will pay he price, morocco have no patience to play hiding war with the polisario, and this time they will fallow the agressor.( the algerian case is simple, hien main strenght point is the oil, once you strick chirurgical hits in thier oil infrastructure the country will collaps) as the corrupted generals srungled all the economic life around oil, (what i'am talking about is not a threat is just good sens, because if you give monen and weapon to some one to kill me, i will not be against this person but against the brain)lol
I personally consider that the people retained in the camps are my brothers and i will defend them (like any other moroccan, and i'll give my blood for them) if the King ask us to do so, this is my real name, and i'am not hiding behind false nicknames, and I chalenge any one who says that I'am doing propaganda, but simply I believe in moroccan right, no one ask me to defend my country rights, I'am just trying to explain to all the readers that moroccans helped algeria to get her independence, and they helping palestine to negociate the right solution, when you see all the arab countries asking israel to leave palestine and they don't recognize it, morocco was the second muslim country to welkom the israelian prime minster, to discuss real solutions, when other integrsit countries like algeria and iran wanted to make desapear israel from the map, please stop associating Polisario and pelestine , i don't thins that the 10 million of plestianians like to be compared to 60 thouzend separatists, manipulated by Algeria, so stop this nonsens comparation.
**Polisario go mad once they see that the saharawis living in western sahara consider that the CORCAS is thier only legal representative, and CORCAS will part in the negociations, in the 5th negociations round in manhaset.
So it is a complicated issue? YES it is.
Who are the people from the CORCAS? and who can tell us if they are real Saharawis?
the CORCAS are genium Saharawis, sons of the Desert Tribes; who ssaid so?
the spanish colonial documents, the 72% of saharawis lives in Western Sahara, and all of them figure in the spanish colonial dossiers, so polisario is afraid, and they know that with or without them in the political Western Saharawi spher, the developpment will continue, some saharawi citires are better developped than some major Algerian Cities, you can ask people from the camps whom visited thier families in Morocco, the roads, if you go to Mauritania, you will be surprised because Layoune and Dakhla and desertic cities, but casablanca engeneers could start life from nothing, polisario have a historic chance to come back to thier nation morocco, if you visit the western sahara cities you will see by your self that all the top positions are taken by Saharawis, we voted for it we contribute in the political life in morocco, we are constructing our future soon, Morocco hive a generouse solution to us, Algeria is afraid to see in the future some Kabilian areas asking for the same(as they are dying in silence for independence)
Nicknames that are hyperlinks are red. Click on them and you get taken to their site or a site they suggest. Other names do not have a hyperlink, and are in black. All the posts marked by Mohamed contain the same IP number.
Dear Friends:
We all already a bit artos of the lies of the state of morocco, a kingdom that goes to nothing and that is today a huge desestabilidad politics, terrorist attacks in Madrid, New York, Bombay or the city of Casablanca in morocco have been Hobro city of the kingdom of morocco, the repression suffered by citizens in the cities saharawis occupation of Western Sahara is appalling each day is more violent repression and the international community should pay attention to these acts, many human rights organizations have criticized in their annual reports to the kingdom of marrueocs that represses any voice of freedom of Sahrawi people, both the United States and the rest of the world must ensure the right of the Sahrawi self-determination in Western Sahara, a village four decades that leads to nothing in the middle of the desert in refugee camps waiting for enforcing international law in a society that CABI of the kingdom of morocco never practiced terror.
Enough of lies and false accusations I invite all people of the united states of america that investigates human rights violations, alone among all can help make this horrible injustice that today is a disgrace leave now There is a pity that the world does not see colonization of africa in the last full 2008.
not be manipulated.
please speak, ask and hear all about this humble people, our destiny is in their hands.
Everyone must see the reality and here you can see please visit this website:
http://www.friendsofthewesternsahara.org/
http://www.house.gov/pitts/initiatives/humanrights/countries/westernsahara.htm
http://homelandonline.org/
Dear Friends:
Dozens Saharawis were wounded, arrested or disappeared after a serious aggression perpetrated by Moroccan settlers manipulated by Moroccan police, on Monday evening and Tuesday morning in the fishing village of Einterfet, near the occupied city of Dakhla, a press release by the Ministry of Occupied Territories and Communities indicated.
"This aggression was basically perpetrated by Moroccan colons, who were encouraged by the Moroccan government to settle in this region so as to participate in the unbridled plundering of the Saharawi fishing resources by Morocco and his allies", the press release indicated.
To the Saharawi government this "serious aggression" is similar to an "ethnic cleansing".
The press release names of 40 Saharawi wounded, 2 Saharawi fishermen arrested, 15 Saharawi shopkeepers had their shops set on fire, and 13 cars burned too.
The Saharawi government, "denounced this aggression that recalls of previous similar aggressions where the Moroccan colons were used and manipulated by the Moroccan authorities to commit atrocities against the Saharawis", the press release added.
The Saharawi government called on the UN to take action in the face of such crimes committed against Saharawi defenseless population, and to quickly and effectively act so as to protect human rights in the occupied territories of Western Sahara.
The fishing village of Einterfet is populated by some 18.000 Moroccan settlers and few dozens Saharawi fishermen. The Moroccan colons, who do not like the presence of the Saharawis with them, seek now to eliminate them by all means, including criminal ways, under the sight and benediction of the Moroccan authorities.
In three cases, decolonization efforts have also run up against conflicting sovereignty claims: Morocco waged a war over Western Sahara with Sahrawi guerrillas of the Polisario Front.
Western Sahara (formerly Spanish Sahara)
Colonial Power: Spain withdrew in 1975, and Morocco now occupies and administers the western two-thirds of Western Sahara, which contains the territory’s largest cities and most valuable resources. The Polisario Front, a guerrilla group of ethnic Sahrawis that fought for independence from Spain and then resisted Morocco’s 1975-1976 invasion, controls the barren eastern third of the territory; the Polisario has proclaimed a government in exile, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic.
Year Colonized: In the late 19th and early 20th century by Spain, after the Berlin conference of 1884 divided up Africa among European powers
Area: 266,000 square kilometers—by far the largest of all the territories on the UN’s decolonization list
Population: 393,831, according to the CIA’s World Factbook (online); that figure may include the more than 100,000 Moroccan soldiers stationed there (population figures vary). Of the civilians living in Moroccan-occupied Western Sahara, roughly one-third are people or descendants of people who inhabited the territory before 1975 and two-thirds are Moroccans who’ve immigrated since 1975; according to The World Factbook, another 102,000 Sahrawis are refugees in Polisario-controlled camps in western Algeria, where they fled after the Moroccan invasion. (This figure is disputed. The UN says it provides food for 90,000 of the "most vulnerable" refugees; the Polisario estimates the number of refugees in the camps at 158,000.)
Languages: French, Moroccan and Hassaniya (Sahrawi) Arabic, some Spanish
Status: Morocco says its sovereignty over Western Sahara is not negotiable, though no nation recognizes its rule and the International Court of Justice stated in 1976 that Morocco has no legitimate claim to the territory. Since 1991 a cease-fire, monitored by UN peacekeepers, has halted fighting between Moroccan troops and guerrillas of the Polisario Front, though a referendum on independence promised as part of the cease-fire agreement never took place. In 2007 Morocco and the Polisario Front began a series of negotiations on the territory’s future, but made no progress toward resolving the dispute. Morocco is offering inhabitants of the territory autonomy under its rule; the Polisario Front insists that the people of Western Sahara be allowed to choose between autonomy, independence, or the status quo. The UN Security Council has urged the two sides to reach a mutually acceptable solution that provides self-determination for the people of Western Sahara.
Jalal, two of your interventions have been accidentally cancelled. The moderation feature held them because of too many links to go directly online, and I accidentally cancelled them by hitting the wrong button. I can't retrieve them, but if you have them archived, please send them once more.
MR Omar S. Nayem, which proovs do you have about your allegations? apart your big mouth?
Second i dont think that the comments of the first guy comes from the second, the first one obvsily don't speaks english, and used babelfish to translate, but the second seems more english literate,lol.
Oh Mss Rizzo, unfortunately you can see that instead of bringing real allegation people have just his mouths to invent stories.
###############################################################################
ACCORDING TO THE REAL UN 72% of the Saharawis lives in Western sahara and they claim that they are Unionist(you can fill an special information application request to UN)
Moroccan gouvernement is obliged to protect his citizens, the 28% of separatists living in The shame camps in tindouf are a mix between Few tribes of Saharawis living in a total luxury in Spain and some mauritanians, and Black african, and some hight skilled mercinary killers coming from Cuba)
###############################################################################
If i belive the CIA i think that Iraq is full of massiv destruction weapon, if i believe the CIA palestine gouvernement is part of the Evil groupe, if i believe the CIA the Arabs are Potentially Terrorists.
Mr Omar, stop giving us those empty of value figurs, did you get them from Algerian gouvernment because i come just to ceck the CIA fact book, and it seems clearly that the fact book based all his informations in the people living in the Western Sahara(what do you think that you are the only who have access to the internet)
please i invite every one to check the information deformation of polisario) as i said 72% of saharawis lives in Western Sahara, and 28% in the slavery camps(tindouf).
UN couldn't know exactly how many people living in tindouf??? and polisario never let UN to meet all the population retained in tindouf! (simply because many of them doesen't exist or are dead by oldness, or was killed by polisario, the polisario policy to make womens in the camps like babies machines, bring the population from 30.000 to 63.000 i think the poor women was living in a real hell, any way the issue is that this guy is bringing us unclear informations.
@jalal nali
You do not believe in anything except your up-side-down history and made-up stories,you just believe in the MAP,RTM and 2M it is your favourite source of information,really you got a Makhzen mentality Reuters,Afrol,UN,RFI,and Aljazeera say nothing but lies all of them are wrong the only one who tell the truth is you so keep on informing us please with your precious info.
Concerning the CIA i think even the American gouvernment support the Moroccan proposal it's officials is still considering western sahara as non self-governing territory and still highlights Sahrawi people right in self-determination,don't you ask yourself why the Usa vetoed the security council resolutions enforcement in western sahara conflict and does not recognises Western sahara as a Moroccan territory?why it calls for Democracy and human rights and violate it in Iraq, Afganistan and Palestine? why it calls for peace and support Israel with weapons and veto to occupy and violate Palestine? it is HYPOCRACY in dealing with facts which the above article is talking about,but i think you could never understand what it means untill you suffer from it.
here is the link to the CIA fact book i will let you see an example of such a harch HYPOCRACY.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/wi.html
To Mr. Jalal:
Western Sahara never, NEVER, belonged to Morocco. You can cry as much you wish, but your cry, your irredentist, fundamilest and imperialist cry does not make legal the invassion and occupation of Western Sahara by the Moroccan Army and, thereafter, by hundreds of thousands of foreign settlers, which is something as illegal and prohibited by International Law as the building of the Wall. You and your lies. MACHTPOLITIK.
You have the Resolution of the Internatinal Court of Justice, October 1975. But doesn't matter. You have the more than fifty resolutions from the United Nations and the African Union. But doesn't matter. You have the fact that NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD acknowledges the sovereignty of Morocco over Western Sahara. But doesn't matter.
And please, neither the MAP nor the CIA are the best examples of objectivity and clean hands.
I will tell you more things, you can be sure, but for the moment I leave you here under a piece of "propaganda" from Algeria, those who gave a piece of desert and shelter to "your sahrawi brothers" (and mothers, fathers, sisters, olders, dchildren,…), when your (French and USA) plains were launching napalm bombs on them when they were fliying AS THEY COULD do it from your "brotherhood". Imperialism is always Imperialism.
Around 1880, the sultan of Morocco (evidently, not today's Morocco in extension…) confirmed to the Foreign Office (London) that "his states do NOT reach Tarfaya, but they finish at the margin of River DRAA". You, and your King, can find the document in the U.K. But please, don't "desappear" it, as your people used to do with the sahrawi people. This document was kept secret when the ICJ dictated its resolution in 1975. Otherwise, the resolution had been even clearer and stronger than it is.
That Franco gave Tarfaya to your King does not prove anything at all. It was a "Premium" for his "help" in killing the people fighting against colonialism (France and Spain, "Ecouvillon Operation", "Operación Teide"). The UU.NN "took notice" of the fact. That's all.
That Franco winned his "civil" war and defeated the legally established Spanish Republic doesn't prove that Law and Truth was on his side. Rather, that he was a criminal, like Hitler and Bush (¡yes, the same that is supporting your feudal and criminal regime in Morocco!), that he also practised MACHTPOLITIK, at the cost of one million people killed (also Moroccans and Sahrawis), the politics of terror and horror.
Don't care, we lived 40 years under Franco's regime… The samething in so many places!!! One million people killed in Algeria, to get the French back home, to get indepence, to be free from colonialism. And you now, the Moroccans, in the XXIst century come to do the same!!!
We also got a lot of foreign investment in Spain under Franco regime. As will Irak. First kill and destroy, then to build, to rebuild and…to do good business!!!
Das Kapital is always coward, my friend, and doesn't mind the lifes of anybody, except "their own family".
Well, my words have no value for you. I speak for others. You will continue spitting fundamentalism and colonialism. So I let you a bit "propaganda from Algeria". I'll take a rest.
It's nothing special, only thet I get this piece today, sure from the POLISARIO Front, who is my chief and pays me a lot of money. You can be sure:
UNION DU MAGHREB ARABE
Le jeu à double entente du Maroc
Qui Rabat cherche-t-il à convaincre en faisant l’impasse sur le fond du problème qui reste une question de décolonisation comme le stipulent les nombreuses résolutions du Conseil de sécurité. (…).
Rabat veut imposer son plan d’autonomie aux Sahraouis, lesquels revendiquent toujours un référendum d’autodétermination conformément aux résolutions pertinentes du Conseil de sécurité dans ce sens et au plan Baker accepté par les deux parties, le Maroc et le Polisario. Or, le Maroc refuse toute solution de bon sens et veut imposer sa propre «solution» à un conflit qui entre dans sa quatrième décennie. Pour lui, l’option du référendum qui ne sera organisé que s’il se limitait à la seule proposition de l’autonomie sous souveraineté marocaine, ou comme le revendiquait le défunt Hassan II, un «référendum confirmatif».
Ce qui, en droit international, est une absurdité et n’a pas de sens. C’est pourquoi la question du Sahara occidental reste en suspens et compromet toute initiative d’unification. Tout en rejetant le principe de référendum d’autodétermination d’un côté, le Maroc plaide pour l’édification de l’Union du Maghreb arabe de l’autre. (You can red the whole article here):
http://www.lexpressiondz.com/article/2/2008-07-27/54761.html
@ Dr.Luis Portillo :
Don't waste your time trying to convince such hypocrite propagandist their only duty is to make noise on the net and i got some news from the Moroccan newspaper "Le journal Hybdo" that runs a news about the involvement of Moroccan DST in the creation of pro-occupation internet propaganda and more:
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/2008/06/moroccan-secret-service-agents-run.html
Another Moroccan scandal took place in Usa it's protagonist is MACP Moroccan American Center for Policies which receives $491,756, and $520 each year and some Moroccan families live in a WC in the main streets in Rabat,is it a shame or not?
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/2008/06/520154-how-much-moroccan-center-for.html
And so on and so forth…
Terrorism and war in the Sahara
Equating the Polisario Front's fight as terrorism shines an unfair light on the organization, says Ana Camacho for Strategic Studies Group.
By Ana Camacho for Strategic Studies Group (14/04/08)
The need to make amends for an unforgivable omission by the Spanish administration has added to a list of dangers for the Polisario Front. Until now, its role as the Sahrawi people's liberation movement has never been disputed, but now they have been downgraded to no more than a vulgar terrorist group. A new innovative episode of historical revisionism is threatening to sneak through via the Canarian Association of Terrorism Victims (ACAVITE) in order to demand recognition and help to defend the inalienable right of the Sahrawi people to self-determination in their own land. Spaniards still require this same recognition and help after more than thirty years of suffering the consequences of the actions of the Polisary Front.
(You can read the whole article here: http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=18858 )
WESTERN SAHARA: AFRICA’S LAST COLONY
Frank Ruddy
U.S. Ambassador (ret.)
*Former Deputy Chairman
U.N. Peacekeeping Mission (MINURSO) For Western Sahara
(…) In 1991, the U.N. Settlement Plan for Western Sahara provided for a cease-fire as well as for a U.N. supervised referendum on self-determination that would let the Sahrawis decide whether to be integrated into Morocco or become an independent state. If ever there were a job ready-made for the U.N., this surely was it. The referendum was scheduled for 1992 but was postponed until 1994. That’s where I came in.
(…) The U.N.’s task was simple enough: Hold a referendum with one issue to be decided: independence or integration with Morocco. Or so the story was. In the event, however, it wasn’t quite so simple. The U.N. turned over control of the referendum to Morocco. There really is no other way of describing what happened. Morocco dictated the where and when of the voting registration, controlled entry to the U.N. voter registration facilities, and even decided which Sahrawis got to register.
The Moroccan observers at the voter registration sessions had observed right off the bat that the people of Western Sahara wanted independence, not integration with Morocco. The way for Morocco to deal with that unpleasant reality was to postpone the referendum indefinitely until it appeared unworkable, leaving Morocco just where it was, controlling Western Sahara. And that’s just what Morocco did.
Towards the end of my year in Western Sahara, I was instructed to make my reports jointly to the U.N. Secretary General’s representative and the Moroccan representative. There was no longer even the pretense of an independent U.N. mission in Western Sahara.
What I described to the Congress about the U.N.’s scandalous performance in Western Sahara was not some personal insight. Morocco’s abuse of the people of Western Sahara, and the U.N. mission’s impotence to stop that abuse, was open and notorious. The U.N. mission was a laughing stock at diplomatic parties in Rabat. The mission’s abandonment of a free and fair referendum was common knowledge to all the peacekeeping soldiers assigned to the mission as well as to the U.N. staff. That is the reason Chris Hedges of The New York Times had no trouble getting the facts he needed to expose in print the referendum for the sham it was.
(…) It is appropriate that we talk about these things now because the world has just recognized, we can hardly say celebrate, the 32nd anniversary of Morocco’s invasion of Western Sahara. We can’t say celebrate unless we also celebrate Indonesia’s, murderous grab of East Timor which Morocco’s invasion most resembles.
One other point worth noting is the great waste of money in the referendum, estimated at $100,000 a day as far back as 1995. That was then a scandalous amount. These days, after the Volcker Report on the U.N. Oil for Food Scandal, it is chicken feed. But there are some similarities.
U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, whose son prospered through the Oil for Food Scandal, was head of U.N. peacekeeping, and therefore of Minurso when the referendum began. He exhibited there the same dereliction of management duty in MINURSO as would later be documented in the Volcker Report.
What I had observed in MINURSO and testified to before our Congress was later verified by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, various newspapers and journals, including The New York Times, The Economist, and on and on.
Worse than the extravagant waste of money on this mission over the years was the U.N.’s duplicity in managing it: the U.N. sold out the nobodies, the Sahrawis for whose right to self-determination the referendum was to be held, to keep favor with a somebody, King Hassan II of Morocco, who had invaded Western Sahara, lost his claim to the territory in the World Court, but succeeded in convincing his old chum and fellow North African, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, to provide a U.N. fig leaf to cover Morocco’s naked aggression and occupation of Western Sahara. And this is an important point. To hear the Moroccans tell it themselves or through their multi-million dollar Washington lobbyists, the World Court ruled in Morocco’s favor back in 1975. As noted earlier, the Court did no such thing, and I invite all of you to google the decision and read it for yourselves.
Those same well-paid lobbyists I just mentioned emphasize what a great ally of the United States Morocco is. Well, that happens to be the truth. Morocco is not evil incarnate. The point is, however, that however helpful Morocco is to us in carrying out diplomatic missions elsewhere, particularly in the Middle East, that same ally, Morocco, acted more like the Mafia in Western Sahara. For example:
http://arso.org/RuddyAlaskaspeech2007.htm
(…) These are the actions of Machiavellians who do what they please with impunity from U.N. sanctions and without a care for the integrity of the referendum or the waste they are incurring. (…) The Moroccans had walked out of the O.A.U. years before because it recognized the Sahrawi Arabic Democratic Republic (R.A.S.D.), the diplomatic name for the Sahrawi homeland, and now Morocco said they didn’t want O.A.U. people involved in the referendum. The O.A.U. representatives were part of the referendum process and, as the Moroccan knew, had to be there.
THUGGERY: http://arso.org/RuddyAlaskaspeech2007.htm
SOME FOR INSTANCES:
(…) A few weeks later, telephone taps were found on local and all international lines at MINURSO headquarters. The taps went to a local Moroccan line. This was hushed up. There was no investigation, but the U.N. employee who installed the taps was secreted away to avoid any evidence implicating the U.N.
Mail had regularly been tampered with, and rooms of MINURSO personnel were regularly searched, but this was a new wrinkle. Big Brother was now listening to, as well as watching, us.
In the following weeks, Morocco, not the U.N., dictated even our work and flight schedules. When the Moroccan observers agreed, the U.N. worked. The Moroccans also insisted that U.N. planes fly empty, and at great expense, from Laayoune where the planes are based, across the desert to the Saharawi camps in Algeria to shuttle Moroccan observers back home and, of course, to demonstrate their control of the process.
(…) In summary, during my time in Western Sahara, Morocco conducted, without a raised eyebrow from Boutros-Ghali’s handpicked representative, a campaign of terror against the Saharan people. As noted earlier, I had not seen the likes of it since I observed the apartheid government in South Africa in action against South African blacks when I visited there with Roy Wilkins, then head of the N.A.A.C.P., in the early 70’s. Morocco did not simply influence the referendum — they controlled it – down to what days the mission worked. Morocco tapped U.N. phones, intercepted U.N. mail, and searched the living quarters of U.N. staff with impunity. More importantly, the Moroccan authorities disenfranchised Saharan voters right and left and substituted Moroccan ringers in their place.
Outsiders like me, as well as U.N. contract employees and veteran U.N. professionals, reported these outrages directly to Boutros-Ghali’s representative in MINURSO, but we might just as well not have bothered. Boutros Ghali’s man blew them off. He simply lacked the gravitas, or the moxie, to take on the King’s gangster-in-chief in Western Sahara, Mohammed Azmi. If you read Graham Greene’s Our Man in Havana, you would recognize him: a charming and ruthless flic, like Greene’s Captain Segura, Batista’s police chief.
Before leaving the mission for good at the end of my year there, I sent a note to Kofi Annan outlining the fraud, waste and abuse I had observed in MINURSO, and I offered to discuss it with him in New York on my return. His reply was that what I had told him was “not serious” (his words.) Once I had testified before our congress, my written testimony was picked up by the wire services and went all over the world. It was, for example, the cover story in the very popular journal Jeune Afrique. Once the media picked up the story, the Secretary General was, like Captain Renault in Casablanca, “shocked, shocked” to hear such things were going on in MINURSO and put his brand new inspector general on the case.
His inspection was a whitewash of the mission, as expected, but it was laughable, literally. John Bolton said at the time that had such a report been made by a federal inspector general, he would have been laughed out of town before the ink on his signature was dry.
(…) The reason the original inspection report was done so poorly was because, as the Inspector General himself later acknowledged, he really wasn’t allowed, under U.N. rules, to do a lot of inspecting. He was prohibited, for example, from looking into the possibility that Morocco was behaving badly in the referendum. Morocco, you see, is a member of the U.N., and the U.N. Inspector General was not allowed to risk embarrassing a member state by acknowledging misbehavior during the U.N. referendum. It was rather as if a special prosecutor in our country, in carrying out his investigation, were prohibited from investigating possible felonies by someone who holds a high post in the federal government because it might offend the person or the office being investigated. Absurd, but welcome to the U.N.
Human Rights Watch based in New York published its 38-page Report on MINURSO, and it is devastating, documenting blatant human rights violations and vote fraud carried out by Morocco right under the figurative nose of the mission. The mission and U.N., as expected, had no answer.
Perhaps the best example of business-as-usual at the U.N. was being invited, and then uninvited, to address the 4th Committee of the U.N. General Assembly. That’s the committee on COLONIALISM! The Committee follows Western Sahara because it is the world’s last colony. I consider it a badge pf honor to say that Boutros-Ghali, the man himself, personally intervened to see to it that the 4th Committee did not hear what I had to say about MINURSO. I was, I am told, the first person ever barred from speaking before that committee in the U.N.’s 60-year history. The Secretary General prevented the 4th Committee, composed entirely of member states of the U.N., from hearing someone who just might have been able to tell them the U.N. was wasting close to a billion dollars on a mission and referendum going nowhere.
One nice final touch about the U.N., about one quarter of whose expenses you and I and all of us U.S. taxpayers pay: When former U.S. Attorney General Dick Thornburgh was serving as Undersecretary for Management at the U.N., he submitted to Boutros-Ghali a report for streamlining the U.N., eliminating waste and fraud and saving hundreds of millions of dollars. Boutros-Ghali, as Thornburgh has stated publicly, had the report suppressed and the remaining copies shredded. (Fortunately, Dick kept copies.)
But I don’t want to leave on a misconception. Yes, I have been under-whelmed by the U.N., but despite all I have said here today, I am not anti-Morocco. Outside Western Sahara they may be our good ally. They even claim (erroneously) they were our first ally against the British. My problem with them is that in Western Sahara they invaded as illegally as Indonesia did in East Timor, and once there Morocco has behaved notoriously, without any fear of sanctions from our State Department.
It is sad for me as an American to see in those countries where I have served, in Equatorial Guinea and Western Sahara, that our government supports the thugs who run those places and ignores the good people who live there and want and deserve better. The United States has kowtowed to President Teodoro Obiang Mbasago of Equatorial Guinea. He is the brutal thief of his country’s patrimony and torturer of his own people, and quite literally a world-ranked dictator (He was # 9 at last reckoning), because he has a lot of oil to sell. Secretary of State recently received him at the State Department, calling him a great friend of the United States. Similarly, we have not confronted Morocco’s machtpolitik because Morocco is helpful in other areas. That explains why the otherwise insipid statement of David Welch, the State Department’s Secretary for the Near East, in June of this year, endorsed Morocco’s autonomy plan. Just following orders as someone once said. The late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, in his memoir as U.S. ambassador to the U.N. was more forthcoming. He acknowledged his job was to see that Western Sahara did not become an independent state, a charge, he said, he carried out very well.
I had great expectations when we had John Bolton at the U.N. He knew where the bodies were buried, and he is a no-nonsense lawyer who worked on the Baker Plan with Secretary Baker. If there were ever a reason to hope for real reform in the U.N. and for a just settlement for Western Sahara, John Bolton personified that hope. But unfortunately, John Bolton did not make policy. He carried it out like any honorable presidential appointee, and that policy tilted heavily in Morocco’s favor.
In mid-August, 2007, shortly before representatives of the Saharawi people and Morocco met on Long Island to discuss for the umpteenth time the future of Western Sahara, on this occasion the latest Moroccan autonomy plan, twenty-four members of the U.S. Congress sent a letter to President Bush. The letter urged the president “to take steps to ensure that your administration demonstrates respect for the rights of the Saharawi people to democratically choose their own political and economic future.” That statement goes to the very heart of the conflict in Western Sahara. The conflict is not really about an autonomy plan, the latest in a long line of illusions that Morocco has created over the years to distract world attention from the real issue: Morocco’s brazen land grab of Western Sahara, a land grab that stole from the people of Western Sahara, not only their homeland but also any say in their own future. Morocco’s crime was contemporaneous with and as flagrant a crime as Indonesia’s seizure of East Timor. It was part of what the British journal The Economist called a double Anschluss
Facts are stubborn things, and despite Morocco’s efforts to hide them, they won’t go away. We have already mentioned the World Court’s opinion in the matter, a decision unfavorable to Morocco, and predictably Morocco ignored it and invaded. Despite dozens of U.N. Security Council resolutions since 1975 reaffirming the right of the Sahrawi people to self-determination, and despite the U.N.’s Committee on decolonization treating Western Sahara as a Moroccan colony, Morocco continues to put itself above the law and remains firmly in place, and in charge, in Western Sahara, Africa’s last colony. Anglo Saxon lawyers have an expression, res ipsa loquitur, the thing speaks for itself, that means in certain crystal clear situations, a simple recitation of the facts is sufficient, without more, to presume culpability. That is the case in Western Sahara.
The Moroccans now propose a limited autonomy plan for Western Sahara, under Moroccan supervision, of course. The Moroccan limited autonomy plan for Western Sahara might sound like a step forward, at least until you read the not-so-fine print. Article 6 of the plan provides that Morocco will keep its powers in the royal domain, especially with regard to defense, external relations and the constitutional and religious prerogatives of his majesty the king. In other words, the Moroccans are offering autonomy, except in everything that counts.
It gets even more disingenuous. The Moroccans say their plan will be submitted to a referendum, but a referendum to be voted on by whom? By the Moroccan people? That would be absurd on the face of it. By the Saharawis themselves? If so, what happens if the Saharawis reject the plan? Will that mean Sahrawi independence? You can be sure the Moroccans would never tolerate that result. The only referendum worth considering is one the Sahrawis can endorse, that is, where all the options are on the table. That’s not in the cards. Anything less is a sham.
(…) Morocco has behaved unconscionably since its invasion of Western Sahara because it has tremendous internal political pressures to do just that. Those same domestic political pressures require spending billions of dollars since this conflict began to eliminate the possibility of an independent state to their south.
To recoup the extraordinary costs of their aggression, Morocco attempted, among other things, to exploit whatever oil resources exist off the coast of Western Sahara until, in 2002, the U.N. legal advisor, Hans Corell, stepped in to say that “…the exploration and plundering of the marine and other natural resources of colonial and non-self governing territories by foreign economic interests, in violation of the relevant resolutions of the of the United Nations, is a threat to the integrity and prosperity of these territories.” Translated from legalese, Morocco, as an occupying power but not the Administering power, must stop plundering the natural resources of Western Sahara.
(…) Western Sahara is currently recognized by 70 countries, although Morocco has been attempting by strong arm tactics to intimidate some of the smaller countries to withdraw their recognition. Western Sahara is also a full member of the African Union, the successor to the Organization of African Unity. These facts alone would seem to demand forbearance by the EU, but such was not the case.
Despite all the diplomatic bloviating at the U.N. and Washington and elsewhere about the rights of people everywhere to self-determination, the countries that could make a difference in Western Sahara are willing to jettison the rights of one small nation to determine its future to placate Morocco and its outrageous irredentist demands. When the Germans invaded Czechoslovakia 70 years ago, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain acquiesced to Germany’s need for lebensraum. Plus ca change…
Fortunately for everyone interested in justice for Western Sahara, (…) the debate over this conflict (…) goes a long way to putting Western Sahara on the geo-political map for those unfamiliar with the issues, and for the rest of us, it explains why this 30 year old conflict is so important, not only to the Saharawis but to the great powers.(…)
After the September 11 terrorist attacks in New York, people all over the world said: “We are all New Yorkers now.” Through conferences like this one, I would hope that some day we might hear some one say: “We are all Saharawis now.”
Thank you very much.
(Please, read the whole FRANK RUDDY's speech here: http://arso.org/RuddyAlaskaspeech2007.htm
I do not think your name Jalal, what I am sure is that you're not more than one part of the DST, My mouth is not bigger than your ability to manipulate and make lies a great truth, I am very hurt by the people Moroccan who can not express what they really feel, do not forget journalist ALI LMRABET, who had to flee the kingdom, surely you and your friends who only formais part of the huge machinery of the king of the poor you are organizing a new episode of torture and manipulation.
Jalal here are my arguments:
http://www.saharawi-students.org
I do not think your name Jalal, what I am sure is that you're not more than one part of the DST, My mouth is not bigger than your ability to manipulate and make lies a great truth, I am very hurt by the people Moroccan who can not express what they really feel, do not forget journalist ALI LMRABET, who had to flee the kingdom, surely you and your friends who only formais part of the huge machinery of the king of the poor you are organizing a new episode of torture and manipulation.
Jalal here are my arguments:
http://www.saharawi-students.org
Jalal Watch this:
A campaign by at least a dozen pro-government news media in Morocco to disparage journalist Ali Lmrabet and accuse him of "treason" as regards its claim to Western Sahara is raising concerns for his safety, Reporters Without Borders warned today.
The smear campaign is focussing on a report about Polisario Front prisoners of war which Lmrabet wrote for the Spanish daily El Mundo in November and an interview with Polisario leader Mohamed Abdelaziz that appeared in the Arabic-language weekly Al Moustakil in January.
It has come just two weeks after the authorities blocked Lmrabet’s request for a permit to launch a new weekly newspaper.
"Such a campaign has never been seen before in the Arabic- and French-language media," Reporters Without Borders said. Moroccan readers and viewers are being presented with one statement after another by pro-Moroccan Sahrawi groups without ever getting the viewpoint of the person concerned.
The press freedom organization added: "Lmrabet is being attacked just for doing his job as an investigative journalist and, apparently, for interviewing the Polisario chief. He did the interview and transcribed what he heard. Everyone should be free to express their viewpoint without having to fear being called a traitor."
Several human rights organizations from the southern provinces staged a sit-in outside parliament, the communication ministry and the Moroccan Human Rights Association (AMDH) in Rabat on 3 February to take issue with Lmrabet for saying the Sahrawi population in Tindouf (in Algeria) enjoys freedom of movement. The police did not stop the protest although they have violently dispersed anyone else trying to demonstrate outside parliament for the past five years.
In the course of a week, at least 10 daily newspapers have used the headline "Ali Lmrabet’s treason" on their front page with his photo. Reports about the sit-in were carried by the 2M and RTM television stations. A total of 11 minutes of the evening news programmes on 3 February were given over to the sit-in.
Moroccan Sahara association president Réda Taoujni, who did not take part in the sit-in, told Reporters Without Borders: "We are disgusted by this unseemly affaire. If they want to settle personal scores with Ali Lmrabet, they should leave Western Sahara out of it. Ali Lmrabet is a fervent defender of the principle that the Sahara is Moroccan."
The winner of the 2003 Reporters Without Borders – Fondation de France Prize, Lmrabet said: You will never find anything written by me expressing anything other than the view I have always defended, namely a Moroccan Sahara that is not attached to us by force or by money, but by human rights, solidarity, freedom and justice."
Lmrabet added: "I am for the self-determination referendum, the Baker Plan and, on principle, the inalienable right of people’s to determine their own fate. This entire operation against me has been mounted by the interior ministry in order to prevent me from relaunching my newspaper, to prevent me from expressing my views about everything to do with public life in my country."
This is the reality of MAJZHEN
Jalal watch the news
Dozens Saharawis wounded, arrested or disappeared after Moroccan police and settlers attacks in the occupied region of Dakhla.
Dozens Saharawis were wounded, arrested or disappeared after a serious aggression perpetrated by Moroccan settlers manipulated by Moroccan police, on Monday evening and Tuesday morning in the fishing village of Einterfet, near the occupied city of Dakhla, a press release by the Ministry of Occupied Territories and Communities indicated.
"This aggression was basically perpetrated by Moroccan colons, who were encouraged by the Moroccan government to settle in this region so as to participate in the unbridled plundering of the Saharawi fishing resources by Morocco and his allies", the press release indicated.
To the Saharawi government this "serious aggression" is similar to an "ethnic cleansing".
The press release names of 40 Saharawi wounded, 2 Saharawi fishermen arrested, 15 Saharawi shopkeepers had their shops set on fire, and 13 cars burned too.
The Saharawi government, "denounced this aggression that recalls of previous similar aggressions where the Moroccan colons were used and manipulated by the Moroccan authorities to commit atrocities against the Saharawis", the press release added.
The Saharawi government called on the UN to take action in the face of such crimes committed against Saharawi defenseless population, and to quickly and effectively act so as to protect human rights in the occupied territories of Western Sahara.
The fishing village of Einterfet is populated by some 18.000 Moroccan settlers and few dozens Saharawi fishermen. The Moroccan colons, who do not like the presence of the Saharawis with them, seek now to eliminate them by all means, including criminal ways, under the sight and benediction of the Moroccan authorities.
Please give him a book on education and good manners to our friend Jalal.
yo can invent millions of lies, ha ha ha , we are living in our land,and keep dreaming of getting a metter of it, and we will keep constructing and devolopping our sahara, lol,
so make noise far in the shame camps of tindouf, we are a nation of 2000 years and we will rmain here for ever FOR EVER, you can writemilliong of lies, you and you Spanards evil associate, anywa, spain economy is crashing down, and morocco is taking over all the europea industrilal relocations, we are getting stronger every day, in 2011 we will start constucting our own warships, and our own thanks, lol
Morocco is the Best African country in Aeronautic, so i don't think that Spain will be so big mouth in a few years. you hate moroccans because of our Jew roots, we will survive, we call this the Moors Resurrection.
the international comunity, was against us when they voted to take Mauritania from morocco, but now they recognize that, it was a big mistake, and Great nation, have to have thier place in the free world.
Mr Nayem, 'nayem that means asleep' in arabic Marry, lol, i think you are sleeping and believing that your dreams are true;lol.
i will ask you kindly to wake up! and see the reality face to face, you and you unenployer spanish friend.
Mr Nayem, all of you always when theres a manifistation you turn it into separatist rebelion, lol, in sidi ifni, all the people brought moroccan flags, expect a crazy guy well known as a polisario empolyer(lol) we call this democraty, is for that the police let him to cray like a crazy, lol.
in Dkhla i a manifestation for work, and all the participant took moroccan flags, to avoid this kind of lies you are trying so hardly to sell in this blog(in fact it's not working) are fallow the nows of cap verd and comors islands, they don't reconize the imaginary RSAD any more, lol deal with that, from 73 countries recognizing this mascarade, now it's just 32 countries, and all of them poor countries waiting algeria to give them some money to keep supporting this bis mascarade. so you end is soon, but you are welkom back in your real country morocco.
go to jmami.com my nick name is CALLmeMAJESTY, you will have a picture of me, in there, allways you associat honest people with the secret service, shall i remember you that i'am not polisario or Algerian to hide my identety behind fake nick names from the moroccan sahara, or sent many comments with deferent names, lol, i'am what you have in front honest with my self, and sur of the marrocanity of the desert, from which tribe you are?
Mr Luis; stop your empty of meaning proovs, lol ana camacho from the PP, partido popular, lol a fashist party, lol, which many latino american presidents call so, and me of cours. don't bring us researchs based in imaginary allegations.
JAMES BAKER III, interview by Mishal HUSAIN – PBS TV– WIDEANGLE – August 19, 2004
Former U.S. Secretary of State, and former Personal Envoy of the U.N. Secretary General to Western Sahara, JAMES A. BAKER III discusses the protracted conflict in Western Sahara with host Mishal Husain:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/printable/transcript_sahara_print.html
[PBS is a media enterprise that serves 355 public noncommercial television stations and reaches nearly 73 million people each week through on-air and online content.]
“There was a division of the territory between Mauritania and Morocco. Morocco today says that all of the Sahara is ours, we will never agree to any division or any partition.”
(James BAKER III)
“And I ended up being the personal envoy of the Secretary General for seven years. During that time I convened 14 formal meetings of the parties on three continents and on any number of informal meetings of one party or the other. We put a lot of plans on the table. Three or four different proposals including the settlement plan, which had been agreed to by the parties back in 1991 when Javier Perez de Cuellar was the U.N. Secretary General. (…)
I was talking about the old plan, the 1991 plan. Now, let me tell you about my plan, which is still on the table, called the Peace Plan for Self-Determination of the People of Western Sahara. That plan changed the settlement plan, which Morocco had decided they were no longer going to try and implement in this way. It broadened the electorate so that everyone in Western Sahara would have the right to vote on this issue of self-determination on the referendum and not just the people who were identified in the Spanish census of 1975 or 1976. And even under that arrangement, now that plan, by the way, was unanimously approved by the Security Council Resolution 1495, and the Moroccans concluded that they weren't even willing to risk a vote under those circumstances. (…)
They [the Sahrawi people] were promised a referendum. The other side agreed to it right up to the very point of the referendum and then backed out. And then you had the plan I put on the table which got the unanimous support of the Security Council, 15 to nothing and it was then rejected by Morocco. So I'm sure the Sahrawi are going to say, wait a minute, what do we have to do here to get a shot at self-determination? What do we have to do? We've said we'll include — well, they didn't say this, I did — we'll include all of the people in Western Sahara as voters in the self-determination referendum. And the Moroccans are evidently even afraid of that. (…)
They [Morocco] did agree with Javier Perez de Cuellar, the former Secretary General of the United Nations, that they would implement the settlement plan that he put on the table. And for 10 or 11 years, even two or three years during my tenure we took steps to implement that plan. And when we got right up to having identified the people who were entitled to vote, the Moroccans then walked away from the plan. Why did they do that? You'll have to ask them but I would assume it was because they were worried that they wouldn't win the vote.
(…) Well I kept telling the king, particularly King Hassan, I said, Your Majesty, if you don't want the settlement plan don't say you want it because I think we're going to be able to deliver it. And they kept professing to want it, not just the king but all of his courtiers as well.
(…) For 10 or 11 years Morocco said publicly and privately that she wanted the settlement plan and wanted this referendum and then toward the very end, right after the voter list had been made, the voters had been identified, she said, Well, it's no longer applicable; we're not going to go forward with the settlement plan.”
“What we were seeking to do was to find a political solution if we could, that would provide for self-determination as the U.N. Security Council resolutions require and give these people at least a shot at self-determination. (…) Morocco has won the war. She's in possession. (…) Morocco is absolutely determined to hang on to it. Why should she agree to anything? And so she is disinclined to do so. Well, there's one very good reason why she should, because she will never receive the imprimatur of international legitimacy for her occupation of the territory unless she works out some arrangement that is blessed by the international community, blessed by the Security Council, or acceptable to the other party. (…) Well I think as long as the issue remains unresolved yes, I think there's hope. I think there's hope because I don't know of hardly any country in the world that as a matter of international law, international recognition, recognizes Morocco's claim to the Sahara. Morocco needs to have international legitimacy attached to its claim.”
“The Security Council has never been willing to impose a solution, that is, to move to Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter from Chapter 6, which requires consensus of both parties. (…) But the real issue is whether or not no country on the Security Council is going to expend political chips on the issue of Western Sahara. (…) Well I think any dispute like this is solvable given goodwill on the part of both parties but you haven't had that. If you don't have that, if they're not willing to exercise the political will necessary to reach a solution and the Security Council is not willing to move from Chapter 6, that is consensus, to Chapter 7 where they can ask the parties, force the parties, one or both of them, to do something they don't want to do. Then I don't know where the solution comes from. (…) The 101st airborne isn't going to go in and require self-determination in the Western Sahara. (…) This issue is really not unlike the Arab-Israeli dispute: two different peoples claiming the same land. One is very strong, one has won the war, one is in occupation and the other is very weak.”
“I think with the U.N. what you get is the lowest common denominator because you have 15 countries on the Security Council — and I would remind you that the United Nations has only functioned the way the founders intended one time and that was when it voted 12 to 3 to authorize the use of force to kick Iraq out of Kuwait (…). That's the only time it's ever done that. (…) If you're going to say that you have to resolve the conflict by consensus agreement between the parties then the parties have got to want to resolve it. And there really should be some outside action forcing events that lead them to that objective. If, on the other hand, you can persuade let's say, the Security Council as we did in the lead up to the Gulf War to use its Chapter 7 powers to impose upon one party or the other or ask one party or the other to do something they would not otherwise voluntarily agree to do, that's a little different. And it's easier to resolve a conflict when you have that power and that ability behind you.”
“…1991 under Javier Perez de Cuellar, the U.N. Secretary General. He put something on the table called the settlement plan to which both the Sahrawi's POLISARIO Front and Morocco agreed, which called for a vote based on a Spanish census of 1975 or 1976. The closer we got to implementing the settlement plan – and we got quite close, (…) we got the Houston accords agreed to. The closer we got, the more nervous I think the Moroccans got about whether they might not win that referendum.”
“Well they built the sand wall way back in '86, '87 sometime. I remember being the representative of the United States of America on the throne day, the celebration of the day that his majesty King Hassan took the throne. And as I was meeting with him prior to returning to the United States he asked me if I could help him with some intelligence involving the wall. And I came back to Washington and put the request in and we got some overhead intelligence to help Morocco with respect to the wall.”
“You cannot, you will not get the economic development in the Maghreb that you would get if there were a settlement of the Western Sahara issue.” (James BAKER III, Interview, op. cit.)
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/printable/transcript_sahara_print.html
http://arso.org.site.voila.fr/BakerPBSes.htm
http://www.saharaindependiente.org/archivodocumental/w/archivo/entrevistaJamesBakerIII.htm
WESTERN SAHARA RESOURCE WATCH – WSRW, Phosphates, fish and oil: The Plundering of Western Sahara, http://www.tlaxcala.es/detail_artistes.asp?lg=es&reference=142
In fact, M. Louis Portillo is a pro-polisarian man but that is not the real problem because he's not the only spanish from the left who is supporting separatism in Western Sahara. May I ask you something mister Portillo : what is your view point of separatism in Cataluna, Basque area… and many other places in the kingdom of Spain.
Are you planning to vote for separatism in these regions? Are you planning to make your GREAT country divided to be in conformance of old fashion ideals? Do you think these regions would have been developed without the help of the central government and europe? I personally don't think so.
I am really amazed to see how people are trying to manipulate the History of the region in the above posts. Many of them, algerians they are or whatever, try to bypass the relationship of polisario creation and the cold war context. The fight to recover Western Sahara started in 60' by king Hassan while Polisario were created by moroccan people in 1973. All of them were moroccan native, all of them did their studies in Rabat. Mohamed Albdelaziz did his study in Rabat. He was born near Marrakech. His father is member of CORCAS. His family is living in peace in Morocco. Many of polisario leaders are in the same case.
The struggle of polisario leaders was and still is against the moroccan regime. In the beginning, their aim was to plot the monarchy not more nor less with the help of the soviet union block represented in the region by Algeria and Lybia in 70' and 80'. The algerian militaries and Kaddafi wanted to make the kingdom of Morocco down. They tried by fortunately they didn't succeed.
If you don't take into account this established fact and if you don't consider that sahraoui people were displaced in Tindouf camps by trucks using manipulation and misinformation about the green march, YOU WILL BE TOTALLY WRONG treating Western Sahara issue.
Dear Mary you seem to have an intellectual approach to learn more about Western Sahara issue but that is not the case of M. Portillo who is definitely supporting separatism in a region he doesn't belong to !!!!
I am so sorry for that. Instead of debating about a solution to end the sufferings of sahraoui people in Tindouf camps, we are dealing with what polisario leaders and its supporters conveyed on Internet for more than a decade because of the absence of unionist sahraouis.
Please look at these videos :
The Polisario camps : Refugees or Hostages?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM_XH2Npms&feature=related (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlDHcECg5QY&feature=related (part 2)
Read what Amnesty International said about sahraoui people living in the camps of shame in Tindouf south Algeria
The infernal machine of Polisario was so good to put forward VICTIMIZATION, VICTIMIZATION and VICTIMIZATION but…what else !
Ahmed Salem
To Mr. A. Salem:
You don't need to put any "cliché" on my person, dear. I only am a citizen of the World fighting for International Law, Justice and Peace. I have the freedoom to do so. And therefore, me and many others are fighting against impunity, imperialism, colonialism, tortureres and criminals, as the Spanish Justice is doing now with some of your chiefs, torturers and "presuntos" genocidas. And therefore we are fighting, and will keep fighting, against the illegal invassion and military occupation of Westerne Sahara by the invaders. And therefore we support, and will keep supporting the Sahrawi people and their rightful cause. And therefore we support the POLISARIO Front, as the legitimate and acknowledged legitimate representative of his People. Are these reasons enough?
I don't mind Cataluña, País Vasco, Ceuta, Melilla, Gibraltar, Falkland Islands, Mónaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra an so on… These are abolutely different questions. Are them treated in the Decolonization Commission of the United Nations, as Western Sahara do is? If you have any claim in this matter, you can take them and go to the IV Committee of the UU.NN. Why your chiefs don't do that?
Today we are not in a "cold war context", my friend, but in another geopolitical and geostratecig one, deserving TEH EMPIRE and its (his) "war on terror". Don't mislead the question, please. You, the DTS, the Mossad, the Corcas, The Majzen, you are always misleading everything. Enough!!!!
Western Sahara has NEVER been a part of Morocco, as the sultan acknowleged and wrote around 1880: "His states didn't reached the RIVER DRAA, much lesser TARFAYA". No more lies.
Many or some Sahrawi have studied in Morocco, yes, principally under the colonial rule of France and (much lesser) Spain in the Magreb. And what? I studied in Germany, Sweden, France, Luxemburg, the USA…, and have no territorial claim on these countries!!!! It's stupid your pretension.
The Berlin Wall is down since 1999. Let things there where they are.
In contrast to Morocco, who NEVER had sovereinty over Western Sahara, we do had it over South America, Philippines, Cuba, and half Europe. These countries got their independence, as Algeria and the rest of Africa, except Western Sahara. Are we now, the Spaniards, to claim on South America, for example? Any way, there are very, very different situations, as S. America effectively belongged to Spain, but W. Sahara has NEVER belongged to Morocco. NEVER. Among other things, Resolution fron the ICJ 1975. Is your country within International Law or outside it…?
The refugees in Tindouf were transported there just for pure pleasure, in thousands of LIMOUSINE that Morocco put at their disposal, and by French airplains with lots of meal and drinks, Coca-Cola and so on, TV included. Those who marched on foot, night after night (to skip the napalm bombs and other "presents"), did that also for pure pleasure, to make a little sport.
Portillo does't "support separatism", simply because there is nothing to "separate" nor to "unify". Morocco and W. Sahara are two different and separated countries. Nothing to separate. And you have brought hundreds of thousands of foreign settlers (Moroccan colonos) to the Occupied Territories to keep the OCCUPATION and try the world one day gives you the "IMPRIMATUR" to your illegal, cruel, military and bloody INVASSION. Yes, through a "confirmative referendum" wehere the voters will be ALL Moroccans, including your King, who also studied abroad…., and spends much time outside "his" rich country, isn't it ?
The "solution to end the sufferings of saharaoui people in Tindouf camps" is not the one "offered" by your sultan or -it'is just the same- by Bernabé, Chaoui, Bush, Sarkozy and Co.
Firstly, you are the origin and the cause of these suffering. You are guilty. GUILTY. GUILTY!!! 8RES IPSA LOQUITUR).
Secondly, you have never had the least interest in the suffering of these People. Just all the contrary. So, tell stories to your own cheldreen.
And thirdly, the REAL SOLUTION is that you and your King stop the daily repression in the Occupied Territories and in Morocco self, against the Sahrawi and the Mosoccans self too. The solution is that you and your King stop plundering the natural (and other) ressources belongging to the Sahrawi people (phosphates, fish, clay and sand and, probaly, gas and oil). The solution is that you and your King, together with his French and American friends ("the right allies") pay the due reparation to the Sahrawi People for all the dammage and all the evil you have done to them and their families along near 40 years. The solution is that you (illegal settlers) and your Military and your Police and your several "Inteligence services", torturers and corrupts, all of you, go back home, IN LIMOUSINE or under airplains bombing you and your childreen, mothers, fathers, brothers… The same as you diid with the Sahrawi. The solutio is that, once cleaned Western Sahar from you, the United Nation accomplish with his own mandate: A CLEAN AND CLEAR REFERENDUM OF SELF-DETERMINATION ("MI – NU – R – S- O"), with all the legal and democratic garanties, where the Sahrawi People could be able to express themselves freely and without being terrorised, and decide also freely what they want for their future and the future of their childreen, having as a basis the ashes and rubbish you have left them; but having also as a basis their dignity, their faith in the international comunity, their incredible patience, their conviction in human rights, their necessity to live in PEACE, their Sahrawi Democratic Republic, their own Constitution, their hope that the whole world will respect their inalienable rigts to live indendents and in freedom, and being sure that the international movement of solidarity with the Sahrawi People will accompany them in their struggle and help them to build a free and sovereign State, as that they freely decide.
Enough with all of you hve done to these People. Long life to the Sahrawi People!
To Mr. Salem:
And here you have some "propaganda from the FRENTE POLISARIO": If you have time, you can saerch it also in English or, perhaps, in Arabic: I have others things to do. Thankyou.
El lobby promarroquí en acción
http://espacioseuropeos.com/?p=947
La imposible marroquidad del Sáhara Occidental
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=55378
El rey Mohamed VI prohíbe toda crítica a estas elecciones
La mayoría política marroquí llama al boicot de las elecciones legislativas marroquíes
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=55192
Siete sindicalistas son encarcelados, acusados de gritar consignas contra el rey
Un verano de violaciones de los derechos civiles en Marruecos
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=55809
Morocco's poor show
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9788059
Human rights violations in Western Sahara
http://asiapacific.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE290041996?open&of=ENG-376
http://www.cadtm.org/article.php3?id_article=2725
http://bellaciao.org/fr/article.php3?id_article=50512
Entrevista al activista y defensor de DDHH, Brahim Noumria (I)
“Ni el Gobierno de Marruecos, ni sus aliados podrán matar la voluntad del pueblo saharaui de existir con dignidad”
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=65453
Peur et silence à El-Ayoun
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2006/01/LOMBART/13130
Conclusiones de la Jornada jurídica internacional sobre el S.O
http://www.afapredesa.org/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=2
Jacob Mundy
The Legal Status of Western Sahara and the Laws of War and Occupation
http://www.arso.org/legalstatusMundyGEES.htm
Deben investigarse las denuncias sobre la tortura de un defensor de los derechos humanos saharaui
HTTP://WWW.ES.AMNESTY.ORG/NOTICIAS/NOTICIAS/ARTICULO/DEBEN-INVESTIGARSE-LAS-DENUNCIAS-SOBRE-LA-TORTURA-DE-UN-DEFENSOR-DE-LOS-DERECHOS-HUMANOS-SAHARAUI/
Issaka K. Souaré
Western Sahara – Is there light at the end of the tunnel?
http://www.iss.co.za/index.php?link_id=21&slink_id=5423&link_type=12&slink_type=12&tmpl_id=3
"In its Resolution 40/50 adopted in December 1985, the General Assembly of the United Nations argued that ‘the question of Western Sahara is a question of decolonisation, which remains to be completed on the basis of the exercise by the people of Western Sahara of their inalienable right to self-determination and independence.’ This definition has prevailed over the years and it has led many to consider Western Sahara as the remaining African territory to be ‘decolonised’ after the regaining of their independence – in the 1960s and 1970s – of almost all the other African territories occupied by the different European powers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. (see for example Washington, 2005; Mohsen-Finan, 1999)
"The current crisis in Western Sahara started in the early 1970s when Franco’s Spain was forced to announce plans to withdraw from the territory it had effectively occupied since 1934.1 As Spain withdrew from the territory in February 1976, the Kingdom of Morocco, which lies to the north of the territory, and Mauritania, located at the east and south of the territory, sent in troops to occupy parts of what was then called ‘Spanish Sahara’, with the lion’s share going to the former.
"Each of them laid claim to their occupied parts of the territory, considering them as having been part of their countries well before the coming of the Spaniards.2 Morocco went further to lay claim to the whole territory, including the areas occupied by Mauritania, as it had laid claim to Mauritania itself and parts of Algeria.
"Yet, before the withdrawal of the Spanish, a number of Sahrawi liberation movements had been formed in the territory with the aim of combating Spanish colonialism and regaining the total independence of their territory. One of those movements, which has proven to be the most tenacious and durable, was called the Frente Popular para la Liberación de Saguia el-Hamra y Río de Oro (the Popular Front for the Liberation of the Saguia el-Hamra and Rio de Oro, or the Polisario Front for short). Despite a 1975 ruling of the International Court of Justice (ICJ 1975:12)3, arguably refuting Moroccan and Mauritanian claims of ancient sovereign ties with the territory, the two countries sent in their troops to the phosphate-rich Western Sahara and effectively occupied it."
http://www.iss.co.za/index.php?link_id=21&slink_id=5423&link_type=12&slink_type=12&tmpl_id=3
Letter of the President of the Republic of South Africa to King Mohamed VI (August 1, 2004) – http://arso.org.site.voila.fr/MBK.htm
(…) “And yet, as with question of Palestine, the issue of Western Sahara ineluctably includes matters of territory and sovereignty over this territory. To insist that these should not be an inherent part of any solution is to argue that no just solution should be sought.
“Recent developments arising from the decisions of your Government make it impossible for us to continue to hope that our recognition of SADR is a material factor in favour of what the Security Council described as a just, lasting and mutually acceptable political solution, which would provide for the self-determination of the people of Western Sahara.
“The avoidable cul-de-sac caused by the positions advanced by the Government of Morocco has created the situation that any further delay on our part to recognise SADR will inevitably translate into an abandonment of our support of the right of the people of Western Sahara to self-determination.
“For us not to recognise SADR in this situation is to become an accessory to the denial of then people of Western Sahara of their right to self-determination. This would constitutes a grave and unacceptable betrayal of our own struggle, of the solidarity Morocco extended to us, and our commitment to respect the Charter of the United Nations and the constitutive act of the African Union.
“It would also suggest that what I have just said is mere words, with no obligations on us to respect solemn international agreements.
“Your Majesty may also be aware of the fact that the recent Assembly of the African Union agreed that our country should host the Pan African Parliament. The people of Western Sahara will be entitled to send their elected delegates to this parliament, as representatives of the people of SADR.
“It would clearly be untenable that we should deny these delegates entry into our country on the basis that we do not recognise them as legitimate representatives originating from an African State that is recognised by the AU and participates in its works as a Member State.
“In its resolution 1541 (2004), the Security Council decided "to extend the mandate of the United Nations' Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara (MINURSO) until 31 October 2004". It would be a matter of great joy to us if the breathing space this extension provides could be used finally to conclude the protracted negotiations concerning Western Sahara, in keeping with earlier international decisions that gave all of us hope that a just peace was possible.
“In the light of the developments to which I have referred, we have begun discussions with the Polisario Front to agree on the modalities of the opening of the Embassy of the Saharawi Arab Democratic Republic in our country.
“In all fairness I must also inform your Majesty that in addition to this, we will continue to support the UN and the AU efforts to enable the people of Western Sahara to exercise their right to self-determination, using all available and legitimate means at our disposal.
“In the meantime, we will accord to the Polisario Front all such rights and privileges that are due to all Member States of the AU in the context of meeting our obligations to the AU and the peoples of Africa to provide a home for the Pan African Parliament.(…) http://arso.org.site.voila.fr/MBK.htm
Mr Portillo, you are a so kind and nice person you defend opressed people, what about your military genocids, when they hit the north moroccan side with nepalm? they still a life some of them!
what about the latino america countries which spain is killing secretly to keep the control of some doctatores in there?
Spanish people, want to looks like France and UK or germany or Italy by try to show the humain side you unfortunately you don't have! you split morocco in parts, just to keep it occupied in his internal issues to avoir the resurrecion of milinary nation, the MOORS night mare still survining in your minds, you don't want to evolut, and understand that great nations regenerate themselves early or late.
I think you should defend El pais vasco as he is asking exactley what the moroccan separatist are asking, so give the pais vasco the total independence, and algeria the the kabylian the total independence, so you can be trustable if you ask for international legality! '-)
you can't give any lesson here you share the same blood as us, Spain was MOOR for more than 8 centuries. we share more than we desagree, i consider spanish people like far family, you can desgree, but there are facts, you can't change.
MR nayem, still getting same obsolet grand ma stories, james backer, i think that van walsum, is the new UN secretary! so we fallow the international legality, and for your info (just read the 1813 last UN decision) you know what it is about!
Today the moroccan ecconomie minister said in a press interview in madrid that Ceuta an Mellia are moroccan, and it's a question of time and good sens, i wil tell you so, there no need to write me a novel to answear, i don't read them, simply because when you repeat always the same song, you get bored of it.
So next time keep it short quick and trustable.
I am against all sorts of colonialism and/or imperialism, also the Sapnish one. History has learnt us enough of .
The question here was not my personal feelings, but your occupation today of Western Sahara, in the XXIst century, not other thing.
"The problem of Moroccan who do not hear, do not see, do not understand and do not want to understand." (Mr. Prada said above, Prada on July 20th, 2008 at 11:40).
If the papers and authors I have been bringing here say nothing to you, it's OK. I hope they can be useful for other people.
Good luck antd stick to it.
The Saharawis have founded their own state in the region, and if someone now wants to compete against this reality he is ignorant.
The Saharwi state is the result of a long-standing stuggle against Spain, France and Morocco since more than one century. And, since its lawful proclamation till now, its age is about thirty years quite a long time.
Why did the Saharwis proclame their own state in 1976?
After Spanish cowardice withdrawl, and after UN' refuse to recognize Moroccan souvereignty over the territory, the Saharawis found theirselves obliged to proclame their own state in accordance with international law and the will of the people.
Firstly, the new state faced a huge campaign from Morocco and its allies in the world to destroy its legitimity, but the Saharawis refused to give up to such threats. They intensified the struggle, militarly and diplomatically, to convince the world of the reality of their state and, finally, they reached their goal.
The majority of the world recognized the Saharawis state ( about 74 countries over the world), and someones started diplomatic relationship with it by opening embassies and consulates as any other sovereign state.
Thus, we could say that the Saharawi state has its weight internationally despite that Morocco had convinced some states to withdraw their recognition of the state since the status of the territory is still under dispute. But, internationally, there is no case called "withdrawal of recognisation" while the mentioned states pronounced their recognition sovereignly, and not under pressure.
The Saharawi state is enjoying full membership in the African Union, and we could not omit a state from the Union because its territory is occupied forcefully by another neighbouring country.The sympathy of the African Union to the legitime struggle of the Saharawi state reached a high level; it elected the Saharwi state at vice-presidency to the Union many times.
UN is also dealing with the leadership of the Saharawi state as a member in the international organisation- the Polisario which enjoys full membership in UN law since 1979. UN considered Polisario as the other party of the conflict and could not pass on any resolution without the agreement of it.
Morocco, the other party, has aknowledged the existence of the Saharawi state after having many direct negociations- face to face- with Polisario under the supervision of UN and the world.
The Saharwis, everywhere, are convinced more than ever of the existence of their own state. They had no other alternative but founding it; they sacrificed their sons and history to build it, and finally, if they will loose such goal for illegality, they will not forget such dream. The state is a reality in their conscience, inn their minds and before their eyes. They say that their state is now out of danger after more than thirty years of sacrifices and sufferences.
In the region( Arabic Magreb), all the other neighbouring countries are convinced that a state in Western Sahara is indispensable; It will confine Moroccan's claims and unlimited dreams of its "Great Morocco" which has no borders in geography, and it will bring back stability to the region after decades of conflicts. The stability in the region is linked with the foundation of a state in Western Sahara, and, besides, the dream of " the Big Magreb Union" could not become true without conciliation between the peoples of the region including the one of Western Sahara. Some people say that the failure of Magreb Union' is only due to the Sahara affair, but the reality is that the failure is due to Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara since more than three decades.
Internationally, the Magreb Union, after including the Saharawi state, will be a real partner for Europe and USA , because union has a great economic power.
Finally, a state in Western Sahara is for the profit of all the region and the entire world, and not for the Saharawis' profit alone; it is a factor of a real stability in the region and will do a real progress towards the Magreb Union which will lead to a huge cooperation with European Union and with America.
You are what you are, an anti-royalist man with communist convictions as the polisario leaders do. Of course you have the freedom to spread communism ideals all over the world but not in a country you don’t belong to. You are totally wrong to fight for a cause you don’t know more than what you have been told on Internet and during the well controlled visits.
Western Sahara has been considered as a non self governing region thanks to the king Hassan in the 60’. It was his political tactic to make pressure on the KINGDOM OF SPAIN to recover Western Sahara. That means Western Sahara issue started longer before the establishment of Polisario in 1973. That also means Polisario has never been the spokesman of all sahraouis. Polisario leaders are the spokesman of themselves. The world has no idea about what sahraoui people in Tindouf think about autonomy for example. The world will never know because polisario leaders with the benediction of Algeria have never authorized a population census to organize a democratic vote. The international community has no idea about the figures of sahraouis in Tindouf camps. Sometimes it’s about 200.000, sometimes it’s about 160.000. It depends on the target humanitarian organization. The WFP and the HCR announced less than 90.000 based on satellite views analysis while unionist sahraouis who have relatives in the camps announced about 45.000 people and maybe less.
You are ready to divide your country, the kingdom of Spain, just to be in conformance of old fashion ideas and to make polisario leaders happy. AMAZING!!
I can’t understand your obsession about DST (not DTS) and Makhzen. Each time there is a comment or a pro-moroccan theses your sole argument to discredit the post is to mention that it comes from DST and you don’t care at all about its content. I don’t know who is your (intellectual) sponsor and I don’t care about it anymore. My concern is about the hard life of my relatives who are living in very bad conditions since the evil of the displacement in 1975.
You simply lie when you go through treaties signed between the kingdom of Morocco and western countries in 12th century, 13th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th (US, UK, Spain…) where Western Sahara is considered as part of the kingdom of Morocco. My question is the following: is it possible to an intellectual mind to be corrupt? I believe an intellectual body is all except a corrupt man. You are proofing the opposite. I don’t want to be your student or colleague.
There is no stupid pretension about the region. Polisario leaders did their studies in Rabat and they all had MOROCCAN IDs. They were joined by Moroccan communists who were planning to plot the monarchy. Polisario leaders fight was and is still against the Moroccan regime. They don’t care about the sufferings of people. They are so blind and they will continue fighting till death.
Since then, where is the stupidity?
It’s pity your ironic manner to treat such a difficult conflict. I think the issue merit more than your stupidities about the displacement of people. You aren’t sahraoui and you don’t belong to this region anymore. You have no idea about the establishment of the camps in Tindouf. You have no idea about how people were conducted to the camps. So, please stop your arrogance and respect the hard life of sahraoui people in Tindouf camps. You are a corrupt and immoral (mis)intellectual.
I am a little bit amazed by your hatred towards the kingdom of Morocco and its monarchy. You remind me another communist supporter of Polisario in another place on the Internet. You are maybe the same profile.
You talked about M. Bernabé. He was a hard supporter of Polisario like YOU. Why did he change his viewpoint about polisario leaders’ fight?
I think you and the communists were guilty in many political issues all over the world (SU, Colombia and South America…and Western Sahara). Polisario leaders were and are still communists. They are facing the monarchy of the kingdom of Morocco as you do but you will never succeed on plotting the Moroccan regime for a simple reason. It’s up to the Moroccans to decide on their future and they are supporting this young king to make changes in the country.
FYI, the kingdom of Morocco has already proposed to send aids to the camps but the Algerian regime have refused. Anyway, you are full of hatred and manipulation. You will stay as you are because you are certainly motivated to do so. When someone is blind, when someone don’t want to hear the arguments of other party that means he can’t be democrat. That also means he is still living on the past principals where the unique idea manages the past, the present and the future.
Western Sahara has been developing since 1975. Look at http://www.sahara-developpement.com to see how the region is becoming one of the prosper region of North Africa. Investments made by the kingdom of Morocco are much higher than the rewards of fisheries and phosphates. Everything is opened and everything is on the web about each Moroccan department. The kingdom of Morocco is transparent in all what is making in Western Sahara.
Regarding the human rights abuses, I believe that you are simply alimented by polisario propaganda. When 2 or 3 separatists are a bit charged by police forces (which of course I contest), that becomes an INTIFADA and so on. Do you have an idea about how many sahraoui are living in Western Sahara? Besides, the majority of these separatists are from the north of Western Sahara (non disputed region) but when it fits the Polisario propaganda they become heroes of INTIFADA and they become originally sahraoui…Exactly the same as Sidi Ifni strikes.
You have to be cleverer and get more wisdom before affirming these allegations. As a (mis)intellectual, you must first investigate about what you receive on your mailbox before making a final judgement.
If you limit your knowledge on what you read on Internet, you will for sure pass through many established facts.
If you don’t consider that the Moroccans and the unionist sahraouis were absent on the Internet to argue to polisario allegations, you will get a limited view of the conflict.
The unionist sahraouis are now on the Internet to re-balance the Western Sahara issue.
You are supporting one of the BIG HITORICAL LIE OF THE HUMANITY!
I am not looking for your trust. I am looking for more wisdom and more comprehension to the efforts of the unionist sahraoui to end the sufferings of their relatives in Western Sahara.
Ahmed Salem
The Saharawis have founded their own state in the region, and if someone now wants to compete against this reality he is ignorant.
The Saharwi state is the result of a long-standing stuggle against Spain, France and Morocco since more than one century. And, since its lawful proclamation till now, its age is about thirty years quite a long time.
Why did the Saharwis proclame their own state in 1976?
After Spanish cowardice withdrawl, and after UN' refuse to recognize Moroccan souvereignty over the territory, the Saharawis found theirselves obliged to proclame their own state in accordance with international law and the will of the people.
Firstly, the new state faced a huge campaign from Morocco and its allies in the world to destroy its legitimity, but the Saharawis refused to give up to such threats. They intensified the struggle, militarly and diplomatically, to convince the world of the reality of their state and, finally, they reached their goal.
The majority of the world recognized the Saharawis state ( about 74 countries over the world), and someones started diplomatic relationship with it by opening embassies and consulates as any other sovereign state.
Thus, we could say that the Saharawi state has its weight internationally despite that Morocco had convinced some states to withdraw their recognition of the state since the status of the territory is still under dispute. But, internationally, there is no case called "withdrawal of recognisation" while the mentioned states pronounced their recognition sovereignly, and not under pressure.
The Saharawi state is enjoying full membership in the African Union, and we could not omit a state from the Union because its territory is occupied forcefully by another neighbouring country.The sympathy of the African Union to the legitime struggle of the Saharawi state reached a high level; it elected the Saharwi state at vice-presidency to the Union many times.
UN is also dealing with the leadership of the Saharawi state as a member in the international organisation- the Polisario which enjoys full membership in UN law since 1979. UN considered Polisario as the other party of the conflict and could not pass on any resolution without the agreement of it.
Morocco, the other party, has aknowledged the existence of the Saharawi state after having many direct negociations- face to face- with Polisario under the supervision of UN and the world.
The Saharwis, everywhere, are convinced more than ever of the existence of their own state. They had no other alternative but founding it; they sacrificed their sons and history to build it, and finally, if they will loose such goal for illegality, they will not forget such dream. The state is a reality in their conscience, inn their minds and before their eyes. They say that their state is now out of danger after more than thirty years of sacrifices and sufferences.
In the region( Arabic Magreb), all the other neighbouring countries are convinced that a state in Western Sahara is indispensable; It will confine Moroccan's claims and unlimited dreams of its "Great Morocco" which has no borders in geography, and it will bring back stability to the region after decades of conflicts. The stability in the region is linked with the foundation of a state in Western Sahara, and, besides, the dream of " the Big Magreb Union" could not become true without conciliation between the peoples of the region including the one of Western Sahara. Some people say that the failure of Magreb Union' is only due to the Sahara affair, but the reality is that the failure is due to Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara since more than three decades.
Internationally, the Magreb Union, after including the Saharawi state, will be a real partner for Europe and USA , because union has a great economic power.
Finally, a state in Western Sahara is for the profit of all the region and the entire world, and not for the Saharawis' profit alone; it is a factor of a real stability in the region and will do a real progress towards the Magreb Union which will lead to a huge cooperation with European Union and with America.
@Ahmed Salem Amr Khaddad :
If you want to be so academic in your discusion you have to bring us arguments based on international institutions that are neutral such also an academic sense of seeking the truth only such as independent newspapers(not the Moroccan one),Radios,international organisations (UN,UNHCR..)and Academic studies…we are not here to make dumps dialogue based on only BLABLABLA.
To be backed by Algeria is a honour for us as Sahrawi they are our ideal in defending their homeland and right in self-determination because they gave the precious they have to defend their ALGERIE the nation of million and half Martyrs and because we fell as Sahrawi revolytionary that our struggle is as theirs.On the contrary,are you glad to be backed by the Israeli vampires who steal Palestine and their American supporters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POhpm34NQVI
for mr Portillo,
don't avoid to dscuss this issue, t's an open blog, what morocco is doing is not imprerialisme SIR!
we are living in our territory you like it or not, i don't think the we will solve this issue here!! lol
you are deeply and wrongly convinced that morocco is a colonial power, no sir the only colonial powe wichs start all this fake story were you people, what about ceuta and melilla? Spain is afraid that the Moroccan desert get over, because they know that thie old moors nightmare will come back.
and the same for algeria, 20% of the algerian territory belongs to morocco, France gave morocco the 1790 maps before leaving, so yes sir the desert belong to us, and many areas bordring Algeria, your hope was that the PP win the election but he didn't (he win or not that's make no diference for us) but for polisario that means more money, to buy more properties abroad.
for Mr Mohamad,
the only one who uses BLA BLA BLA around here are you! this mascarade will be over soon, by the way Bouteflika soon will pass to the other side, he is in terminal caner( it's sad humanly talking) as you like to read stuffs from the CIA, i find it interesting to inform you, his mom still living in oujda.
Mary wrote this blog to make people discuss about solutions, i guess that polisario will avoid to go to the fifth round of negociations, polisario is devided inside is like a bombe, exactely like algeria.
Do you think that the bombs in algeria gainst military convoys, was carried by terrorists or by the RDK?
oui Republic Demokratique Kabyle, ha ha, the Agerian gouvernment put a lot of effort to hide it (during years)
at the end the truth comes up.
like the Polisario mascarade supported by Spain.
for mr Portillo,
don't avoid to discuss this issue, it's an open blog, what morocco is doing is not imprerialisme SIR!
we are living in our territory you like it or not, i don't think the we will solve this issue here!! lol
you are deeply and wrongly convinced that morocco is a colonial power, no sir the only colonial powe wichs start all this fake story were you people, what about ceuta and melilla? Spain is afraid that the Moroccan desert get over, because they know that thie old moors nightmare will come back.
and the same for algeria, 20% of the algerian territory belongs to morocco, France gave morocco the 1790 maps before leaving in 1955, so yes sir the desert belong to us, and many areas bordring Algeria, your hope was that the PP win the election but he didn't (he win or not that's make no diference for us) but for polisario that means more money, to buy more properties abroad.
for Mr Mohamad,
the only one who uses BLA BLA BLA around here are you! this mascarade will be over soon, by the way Bouteflika soon will pass to the other side, he is in terminal caner( it's sad humanly talking) as you like to read stuffs from the CIA, i find it interesting to inform you, his mom still living in oujda.
Mary wrote this blog to make people discuss about solutions, i guess that polisario will avoid to go to the fifth round of negociations, polisario is devided inside is like a bombe, exactely like algeria.
Do you think that the bombs in algeria gainst military convoys, was carried by terrorists or by the RDK?
oui Republic Demokratique Kabyle, ha ha, the Algerian gouvernment put a lot of effort to hide it (during years)
at the end the truth comes up.
like the Polisario mascarade supported by Spain.
CONGRATULATIONS MARY!
you secceed in your iniciative, by writing this blog, you can see that the point's of view are so distinct!
you can see why Spain and Algeria support Polisario (just by interest) the money sepnt in this invented problem van't be stoped by a magic slap, all this suffries is carried by polisario, and at the end of the day Polisario is just a pupet in Algeria hands, if you fallow the news you will see when a country stop blieving in this wierd creation, algeria stop his diplomatic relations with. like when spain decided to stop supporting them, algeria raised the gas price to spain 20%, and the few poor countries having relations with poilsario gets moey from algeria(it's a good deal for them) where is the international legality when polisario retains thouzends of moroccans, the moroccan separatists (polisario) are pushed by algeria simply( the old algerian dream access to the atlantic sea side by annexing the so helped polisario.
I would like first to welcome Mr.Ali Lmrabet the free Moroccan journalist who is a symbol of the fight for freedom of speech after his imprisonment and hunger strike, he is ready to continue his crusade,he has but one weapon: words.A great man with great principles and strong determination to change a real Moroccan who seeks a better Morocco for all the Moroccan,a real ideal for every journalist who seeks the truth and change for better.
On behalf of Sahrawi people i welcomed your coming on the Pro-palestine blog which dedicated a part of it to host our cause because the two causes suffer the same HYPOCRACY it is a honour for us to be near our brothers in Palestine in the time when brothers betray us all,i hope on your return home you shall keep on struggling for the truth everywhere in Palestine,Morocco,Iraq,Western sahara and elsewhere,i have been alerted with an interview that you have made in Barcelona it was really touching to hear such idea from a Moroccan journalist who broke the norms and who have the courage to face the Monarchy and its Makhzen's media with new reality of Sahrawis living in the refugee camps that they are not held captive, but rather are refugees.
http://www.cafebabel.com/cat/article/16723/ali-lmrabet-fighting-for-freedom-of-speech.html
Along with Abdellah El Harif the national secretary of "la voie democratique" you gave a real example for the real Moroccan luchadores for peace and justice,when he defend the right of Sahrawi people in self-determination as a corner stone for maintaining democracy in Morocco for a better Maghreb-Arab or as Abdellah El Harif descibs it and El hawari Boumedine before him the Maghreb of Nations or the Great Maghreb.here's his speech in the French National Assembly in 19 June 2008 :
http://www.redasociativa.org/dosorillas/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1054
Finally,you are welcomed to visit us here in the occupied zone of Western sahara especially in Aaiun the capital of our homeland to see and to report what's really going on away from the propaganda but i think it is will be not away from the Makhzen eyes even hands and sticks.
lol , wow you are so smart, lol Mr Lmrabet Ga3! you are so misirable, and you think we will believe you?
by the way i think you read in the spanish paper that the Spanish constitutional court retained charges against polisario for crimes aainst humanity?
lol you think that this guy have nothing to do expect writing in this blog? lol you make me feel pity for you, you are just showing up your turned mind, any way Tree thouzend pepole living in the camps are preparing to come back to thier nation, they said that it was too much for them serving Algeria plans, that set, they want a real futur in thier mother country morocco.
i'am fighting your lies by the truth 'deal with that'
Mr Mohamad, you are welkoming Mr Ali!
you should welkom me two, because i'am a simbol of the truth and the legality, and a peacful cheap propaganda fighter,(polisario propaganda) you heard what the king said today? yes you did is your king too, you are considered just moroccan separatist and us the saharawis living in the Moroccan sahara (unionist)
our representative will goin in the next negociations raound. with Van Walsum, the honorable man.
who could see the truth and defend the right of morocco to live in harmoy, and far from other bad minded countries terrorism backing.
TO MR. ALI LMRABET:
Don't worry, Mr. Lmrabet, you are WELCOME. hearthly welcome to this blog or website, although it is Mary's blog, not mine (I haven't).
What they are telling you, and haw they are telling, I feel as they were telling me: Just the same. It is also so with the Sahrawi people, or with the Paletinian people or with the Irak's people. It's the same feeling with all oppressed people fighting for their freedom and the respect of their legitime rigts.
We have only the word; they have the strength, die Macht, the Power, the weapons. Weapons to intimidate and to kill human beings.
Unfortunately, I'm too tired to continue writing (I am ashamed to say this when the Saharawis carry so many years of loneliness and fatigue). But I admire your courage, your honesty and your struggle. And I feel like your brother's soul, brother of the people who think like you and who have the courage to live and suffer in their own flesh the consequences of not being subject to power and lies.
Someday, many Moroccan brothers will be able to speak as you do; and they will be enormously grateful to you for having had the courage to speak freely and to fight for truth and justice.
Many Spaniards also we are with you. And too many people in the rest of the World.
Thank you for coming here. My brotherhood and solidarity. The struggle continues.
Luis Portillo
Another voice of truth has been accused in Morocco because he defended the truth,the lawyer Taoufik Moussaif because he pulished two articles and made an interview in which he critisized the Moroccan justice in it's dealing with the so called « Jammat Ansar Al Mehdi » trial as stated Amnesty international.
http://www.amnestyinternational.be/doc/article13286.html
Am sure the news will only fortify Mr.Lmrabet's determination to turn back home because he knows that neither Spain nor France need him,it is his homeland Morocco that called for him in that critical period.
I think that the Moroccan king has created a new method to rid from his responsibility in the current situation that Morocco lived in such as accusing the the neighbooring Algeria in a speech addressed to the Moroccan people at the occasion of celebrating the ninth year of accession to throne.
http://www.elkhabar.com/quotidienFrEn/lire.php?idc=129&ida=117881
There is much to teach to the young king about democracy that he always pretend to spread,also much more to the Moroccan people if they want change for justice and real democracy not the M6 one.
Moroooocccans, stop talking about my country!!! Your ignorance about Algeria betrays you. There you are only servants of your lord, the king M6. (Jalal, go to kiss his foot!!!) You don't and won’t know the struggle for the motherland. Your only dedication is inflating the web of your lies and propaganda about my noble homeland. Do you know that is the work of cowards? We fought against colonization, one and a half million martyrs is the result, and also against fundamentalism. However you were sold by your king who was taken to an island and then recreate entire paraphernalia with which France presented it as your saviour. We even beat you too, or don’t you remember the War of the Sand? We threw out the enemy with our blood, and we stopped your imperialist cravings. We defend the just causes and will always be beside the Sahrawi people. What you would enjoy is that we leave them oppressed and you steal their land and wealth. That is not worthy of men. You, Moroccans, have mentioned the Berbers in Algeria, and you have forgotten that at least our Berbers have never founded a republic (as in your case: The Republic of the Rif !!!).
And finally, I would tell you that you moroccans aren't worthy of a blog that deals with the Palestinian issue, because we all know that your king Hassan II served always the Jewish interests, and that your current King is advised by Jews. And By the way, I wanted to ask "J. Nali", why one of your blogs (yes, the list of propaganda blogs!) is about Jews in Morocco. You are Moroccan Jew, aren’t you?
To clear up what’s our claim on Western Sahara, here I give you a link to a video of our leader Haouari Boumediene clearing possible doubts:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=s_h1C9kBIcU&feature=related
Long life to Algeria, the Revolution of million and half martyrs and long life to the inalienable right of Saharawi people in their self-determination!
Hello everybody,
For now, just one question:
I wonder how to post a larger document on this forum: Is
there a way to publish a PDF or HTML or TXT-file on the
Morocco-and-West-Sahara question? I recently found this
forum was treating the cause, decided to note down my
thoughts on it and now would like to publish it before
anybody loses their interest. At the moment, I cannot
publish it own my (former) website since the maintainer had
to close it down for personal reasons. If ordinary
contributions are the only alternative, I will be glad to
post it in this conventional way.
Mark P.
Breaking news about Western sahara conflict from Indonesia :
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/31/content_8872356.htm
Aceh is governed not as a province but as a special territory , an administrative designation intended to give the area increased autonomy from the central government in Jakarta,for more information on the conflict:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aceh
The coalition against Morocco becomes bigger and bigger and very well orchestrated. By introducing M. Lmrabet, The Spanish symbol of freedom and honesty, in this debate, you are simply making propaganda against Morocco. You all are not supporting Polisario. You are just spreading wrong information about the kingdom of Morocco.
Mohamed or mohamed, you are for sure algerian and you seem to be very closed to M. Lmrabet or the person posting under the name of M. Lmrabet. You have a role to play in this forum and you are playing it. It's a sorte of game with give and take propaganda. In the meantime, there are sahraouis who are living in very very bad conditions. You deserve the sahraouis, you deserve your Algeria and the region as well.
FYI, Lmrabet family is a big family well know in Morocco by its nationalism and patriotism. Ali Lmrabet had personal problems with the king of Morocco. Since then, his aim is to make the country and the moroccans in trouble. It's his personal view of Morocco and he can't represent the view of the moroccans.
I disagree with all his articles because it's just about BLA BLA BLA for nothing…NO….THING. We became democrate in 1999. Do you think possible to a nation to reach a high level of democracy in 9 years after more than 40 years of darkness and oppression from the north to the south (Western Sahara)? M. Lmrabet was looking to pass through many steps to reach democracy. It wasn't the right way to claim democracy. We have in Hassani a proverb to discribe this kind of situation but it doesn't make sense into english.
Anyway, as it was said by Jalal. We are here to take and give ideas. We are not the UN. We do not represent the international community. We are here to give and take ideas about a very complex issue. We won't be able to find a technical solution to the referendum because all the experts of the UN didn't succeed on getting the right formula to make it concrete. We also won't be able to stop the sufferings of the sahraouis in Tindouf camps because Polisario leaders are working on improving the encirclement of the camps to limit the escapes. We also won't be able to convince the Polisario leaders on the seriousness of the autonomy proposal and the unrealistic independence.
You have your URLs. I have mines. So what!
M. Lmrabet or the person under this name : what's your thoughts on the autonomy initiative proposed by Morocco to end this absurd cold war conflict?
Ahmed Salem
To Mohamed you are no ashamed f yourself,
i think you are living i another dimintion! lol
because is totally the opposite what happens, All the free word support morocco, because morocco is strong historically and legaly and the desert is moroccan, what a waste of time replaying to ignorants, anyway, your big comedy Mr ban ki moon now it really well, lol
to Ahmed Salem Amr Khaddad,
I'am really impressed by your cultural level, i want you to visit my blogs. or visite jmami, 'CALLmeMAJESTY' i'am one of the oldest members of this website i'am member of Saharamarocain under the same nickname.
http://moroccan-sahara-news-spanish.blogspot.com/
http://sahara-marocain-news.blogspot.com/
http://plisario-terrorist-group.blogspot.com/
http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=7083437815327671654
First,i would like to correct your mistake when you pretend that A.Lmrabet is Spaniard,he is more Moroccan than you and your colleague because he loves his homeland and defend it and he wants the better for it,so you have to edit A.Lmrabet's biography on Wikipedia to be so academic or to bring us another source which states that he is a Spaniard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Lmrabet
He will be back to his homeland sooner with stronger determination to change "his aim is to make the country and the moroccans in trouble. It’s his personal view of Morocco and he can’t represent the view of the moroccans."he is an exception in a 40 Million Moroccan as Ghandi was in India,as Dalailama in the Tibet as Nilson Mandilla in South Africa …. exceptions made the change,if you believe in change if not it is your problem HABIBI.
Secondly,All the frastrated Moroccan got the old complex with Algeria from their very top M6 who accused Algeria and blame it for the interferance in Western sahara conflict yesterday in his speech to the Moroccan poor people, to the common Moroccan people who are just imitating the Makhzen's media propaganda.If i was living in another country away from the control of your DST believe me i will invite you to have a cup of coffee with me and i will prove to you who i am,but i did not trust you because i have been arrested many times at the cyber coffees of Aaiun in Skaikima,la visite,24 nouvember )if you have a good knowledge of the streets of Aaiun) and i got a nice profile with photos available in the 24 detention center where i was tortured every time i was arrested with some friends,but i was a beginner and i did not master the game but now i think i have but i will never trust you.I always had had my evening walk in Aaiun streets )Smara street,Skaikima) and i take a coffee with my camrades in )Ibiza cafe in Smara street or in Las dunas cafe or Las palmas cafe ) if you are a settler in Aaiun i know i have prove to you that am living in Aaiun and i was born her and am pure Sahrawi who is a YES TO INDEPENDENCE voter in a future fair referendum,just to stop your magic imagination from inventing new nationalities.
N.B: I have mention it many times before, be academic and scientific give us your sources in order not to consider your comments as BLABLABLA.
@Ahmed Salem Amr Khaddad:
Concerning your questions to Mr.Lmrabet i reffer you to an article of Dr.Nick Brooks entitled 'Interrogating the occupation' in which he had many things to teach you as he did in Global Voices could you remember so let all of you enjoy the article:
http://nickbrooks.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/interrogating-the-occupation/#comments
Mohamed or mohamed,
Nick also wrote about a meeting with Pr. El ouali who wrote an interesting book on the Western Sahara issue and the autonomy initiative. He wondered how deep is the seriousness of the moroccan proposal. He was really interested on getting more and more information on the issue and the autonomy initiative.
Regarding what you mentionned in Laayoune city. I can tell you that I know every place in Tindouf camps. My relatives inform me about what is happening in every place. I also can tell you some streets and places in Europe. That doesn't mean I am living there.
Dear algerian. I appreciate your interest on the issue and I wish your gouvernment will stop his manner to direct Polisario views and politics. The cold war is finished. Let's talk about the present and the future.
If Algeria needs a gate to the atlantic sea, Morocco is ready to talk. The king Mohamed 6 mentionned this week that the borders between our two countries must be opened to make our progress more concrete.
Morocco is very open to talk to make the reconciliation of our two countries a reality, an example for other nations.
It's up to you algerians
Ahmed Salem
Mr Algerian, it will be a real honor to kiss his feet, hundreds of time, than live like an animal under the coprrupted algerian military, how many kabylian have to die to get thier independence?
what happend in the other underdeveloppe countries like algeria, is that morocco without oil, soon will join the free world, and morocco went far from algeria dictature, maybe there a 15 years , it's a shame a cuntry full of oil, and thier youth is getting killed and deported from morocco to algeria( illegale immigratio) last May morocco deported 900 illegal algerian from nador.
and yes i will kiss his feet, because he is what we keep moroccan hight and indestructible, (you know what i'am talkng about ) so you talk politley you get a polite answear, that set, no one called Mr Lmrabet here by any 'bad name' he belongs to the moroccan Nation, so he practice his right of telling his point of view, it's normal, morocco is a democracy, i don't agree with him but he still a moor like me, our nation have a real history, and we never were created by france, and ruled inderectly by urss, for the spanish guy: don't play this song of our brother every one knows how spaniard works (when they need somthing) thanks god the spanish gouvernement support moroccan right to recover his territory, another thing believe me you are missing the oportunity of your life, if you don't take it, you will regret it, it's not a threat!
because the international comunity see learly what happend, and this fake Algerian invention.
it's good to discuss this it's good to exchange points of view, but your don't want to be reasonable and realistic(as UN said) you looks like (polisario) brain washed from Algeria. hope that the polisario will put the moroccan saharawi retained in tindouf interest before his own(as we used to see) some tribes dominate others Four tribes control eveything, oh my god, it's really sad. but i'am confident that the reason will win
Ahmed Salem Amer "Khaddad", siniestro personaje, los saharauis te conocemos bien a ti a tu familia. No nos representas, vendido al poder y al dinero de la monarquía feudal, ¿has quedado tan sólo para intervenir en foros de internet como este y otros dónde te encontramos?. Triste ocupación la tuya.
Mi familia es bien conocida por su gravedad y los esfuerzos para poner fin a este absurdo conflicto. Usted sabe querido argelino como todos sus colegas cómo Khaddad la familia se dedica a ambos lados del conflicto. Por favor, deje de tonterías su propaganda para desacreditar al unionista saharauis y los marroquíes también.
Larga vida a la unionista saharauis, larga vida a los marroquíes
Abajo a la oscuridad, abajo al fascismo, abajo al oportunismo
Translation into english :
My family is well known by its seriousness and efforts to end this absurd conflict. You know dear algerian as all your collegues how Khaddad's family is engaged in both sides of the conflict. Please stop your nonsense propaganda to discredit the unionist sahraouis and the moroccans as well.
Long life to the unionist sahraouis, long life to the moroccans
Down to darkness, down to fascism, down to opportunism
Ladies and gentlemen,
please try to behave as such instead of quarreling. I never thought i would ever ask contributors to a supposedly serious debate to, please, read the "consider" lines just below:
Do you mind me asking you to "treat others with respect" and refrain from personal attacks that, definitely, "will not be approved" by anyone who still might be reading.
As to the independence struggles in Spain: If somebody wanted to debate the Euskadi question, i suppose to do so not exactly on the present thread — and get some information on the issue, in the first place. You would certainly notice that few communities in the world enjoy such a large degree of autonomy prerogatives as the regions of the Spanish State. And do you seriously believe the majority of citizens (not subjects) of Spain are backing any measures of national authorities against regional parties and groups? Do you have a slight idea of Spanish regionalism?
Now, let us stop digressing from the matter — suppose somebody is interested in the Sahara, rather than your personal relations. Please.
Dear Mark,
Wisdom is better than one hundred posts !
Many thanks for the above. You are definitely right on saying that the debate is sterile when it comes to personal attacks. I am personally here on this debate to complete or rectify some wrong information on the Western Sahara issue.
I am talking here on behalf of many unionist sahraouis living in Western Sahara in peace and harmony since 1975.
I started first on making a balanced view of the conflict to let people like you know the other version (unionist') of the Western Sahara issue. This version which was hidden on Internet for more than a decade for a simple reason : the unionist sahraouis as well as the moroccans underestimate the impact of propaganda on Internet. Some wrong or incomplete information became established facts and Morocco got finally a very bad reputation on Internet.
Then my idea was to talk more about the autonomy proposed by Morocco to end this absurd sterile cold war conflict but algerian propagandists were diverting everytime the subject to personal attacks and misinformation.
Now that wisdom is taking the power what are your questions on the autonomy initiative proposed by Morocco? I wish I will be able to illuminate you.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
To / Para AAIÚN LIBRE (English – Español):
I know that there must be no personal attacks on this blog, but I understand and share your feelings.
Many Spaniards also are angry with our own Government for his behavior in the cause of the Sahrawi People, and we shall pressure to get him to, at least, comply with international legality.
It seems that some people consider that this blog, rather than being a place for discussion, is like a boxing ring: to see who enters here to strike and leave him KO.
Here under I quote some analysis on the plan of "autonomy" of the Moroccan Government, in English and Spanish, for those who want to read them and draw their own conclusions:
ESPAÑOL: Sé que no debe haber ataques personales en este blog, pero comprendo y comparto vuestros sentimientos. Muchos españoles también estamos indignados con nuestro propio Gobierno por su comportamiento en la causa del Pueblo Saharaui. Y presionaremos para que, al menos, cumpla con la legalidad internacional.
Parece que algunas personas consideran que este blog, en lugar de ser un lugar para el debate, es un ring de boxeo: a ver quien entra en el ring para golpearle y dejarle K.O.
A continuación, cito algunos análisis sobre el plan de "autonomía" del Gobierno marroquí, en inglés y en español, para quien quiera leerlos:
1) FRANK RUDDY (U.S. Ambassador (ret.) – Former Deputy Chairman – U.N. Peacekeeping Mission for Western Sahara (MINURSO):
“The Moroccans now propose a limited autonomy plan for Western Sahara, under Moroccan supervision, of course. The Moroccan limited autonomy plan for Western Sahara might sound like a step forward, at least until you read the not-so-fine print. Article 6 of the plan provides that Morocco will keep its powers in the royal domain, especially with regard to defense, external relations and the constitutional and religious prerogatives of his majesty the king. In other words, the Moroccans are offering autonomy, except in everything that counts.”
“It gets even more disingenuous. The Moroccans say their plan will be submitted to a referendum, but a referendum to be voted on by whom? By the Moroccan people? That would be absurd on the face of it. By the Saharawis themselves? If so, what happens if the Saharawis reject the plan? Will that mean Sahrawi independence? You can be sure the Moroccans would never tolerate that result. The only referendum worth considering is one the Sahrawis can endorse, that is, where all the options are on the table. That’s not in the cards. Anything less is a sham.”
http://arso.org/RuddyAlaskaspeech2007.htm (ENGLISH)
ESPAÑOL: “Ahora, los marroquíes proponen un plan de autonomía limitada para el Sáhara Occidental, por supuesto bajo supervisión marroquí. El plan marroquí de autonomía limitada para El Sáhara Occidental podría parecer un paso adelante, al menos cuando no se lee la letra pequeña. Porque el Artículo 6 de este plan estipula que Marruecos conservará sus poderes en todo lo concerniente al ámbito de la Corona, especialmente en cuanto a Defensa, Relaciones Exteriores y las prerrogativas constitucionales y religiosas de su majestad el Rey. En otras palabras, los marroquíes están ofreciendo la autonomía en todo, menos en lo que realmente importa.”
“El plan se va volviendo cada vez más falso. Los marroquíes dicen que su plan va a ser sometido a un referéndum, ¿pero quién va a votar en ese referéndum? ¿Los marroquíes? Eso sería absurdo. ¿Los propios saharauis? Si así fuera, ¿qué pasa si los saharauis rechazan el plan? ¿Significará eso que consiguen la independencia? Pueden estar seguros de que Marruecos jamás toleraría ese resultado. El único referéndum que merecería la pena tener en cuenta es un referéndum que los saharauis puedan aprobar, es decir, un referéndum que ponga todas las opciones sobre la mesa. Pero no caerá esa breva. Y cualquier otra cosa sería una farsa.”
http://arso.org/RuddyAlaskaspeech2007s.htm (ESPAÑOL)
2) The 2007 Moroccan Autonomy Plan for Western Sahara: Too many Black Holes
By Carlos Ruiz Miguel
http://www.eng.gees.org/articulo/214/
http://eng.gees.org/autor/62/
http://www.upes.org/body2_eng.asp?field=articulos_eng&id=286
La propuesta marroquí de autonomía de 2007: demasiados agujeros negros
Por Carlos Ruiz Miguel
http://www.gees.org/articulo/4141/
http://web.usc.es/~ruizmi/sah.html
http://www.umdraiga.com/negociaciones/negociacionessaharamarruecos.htm
3) More harm than good
Morocco's proposed plan to grant Western Sahara autonomy is a poor solution to Africa's forgotten conflict.
By Stephen Zunes
http://www.opendemocracy.net/terrorism/western_sahara_180707
Es peor el remedio que la enfermedad
http://arso.org/Zunes180707s.htm
4) The Future of Western Sahara
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4410
El futuro del Sáhara Occidental
http://arso.org/Zunes200707s.htm
estoy viendo que estais cambiando de lengua, al final vamos a hablar en castellano, la lengua de aquellos que crearon este ficticio problemaron el gran timo polisario,y los argelinos que agrandecieron esta gran mentira, bueno estoy contento de ver vuesta verdadera cara, no sois nada mas que marroquies, sois separatistas pero marroquies al final, traidores de vuestra patria Marruecos.
Dear Jalal,
It's was a sort of parenthesis
English is better of course to let people from the 4 points of the world know more about the other version of western sahara issue. The one lived and narrated by the unionist sahraouis. The one which missed on Internet sooooooooooo much
I am also happy to see that the unionist sahraouis and the moroccans as well are more and more on Internet to rectify more than a decade of darkness and misinfomation.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
Dear Jalal,
i agree in part to what your lines, which i am going to resume in English (since obviously we should use the language the host webpage prefers): "i see that finally, you switch to Spanish, the language of those who created this fictitious problem of this huge bogus, Polisario, and the Algerians who reinforced this lie. i am glad to see your real face, you are nothing but Moroccans. Separatists, but finally Moroccans, …"
Probably, most of us will agree that general Franco played a decisive part in the West Sahara cause, and that he better had not acted as he did.
… and, not to forget: That post-Franco Spain could do
_something_ about it!
In this respect, do you know that even though the site of
Bou Craa is the most profitable phosphate mine (in the
world, AFAIK), one of the world's big players in the related
industry decided to retreat from the area? They abandoned
all the region, stopping their most profitable
operations. The reason? As far as i know, public opinion in
Norway, where the company comes from.
So there is some hope, at least, dont you think, that the
public finally counts!
(after correcting the mail address, i am re-posting the
contribution i first sent 5 minutes ago: please dont mind
forgetting about the first post!)
Dear Jalal,
i agree in part to what your lines, which i am going to
resume in English (since obviously we should use the
language the host webpage prefers): �i see that finally,
you switch to Spanish, the language of those who created
this fictitious problem of this huge bogus, Polisario, and
the Algerians who reinforced this lie. i am glad to see your
real face, you are nothing but Moroccans. Separatists, but
finally Moroccans, ��
Probably, most of us will agree that general Franco played a
decisive part in the West Sahara cause, and that he better
had not acted as he did.
(after correcting the mail address, i am re-posting the
contribution i first sent 5 minutes ago: please dont mind
forgetting about the first post!)
… and, not to forget: That post-Franco Spain could do
_something_ about it!
In this respect, do you know that even though the site of
Bou Craa is the most profitable phosphate mine (in the
world, AFAIK), one of the world's big players in the related
industry decided to retreat from the area? They abandoned
all the region, stopping their most profitable
operations. The reason? As far as i know, public opinion in
Norway, where the company comes from.
So there is some hope, at least, dont you think, that the
public finally counts!
Dear Ahmed Salem,
to start the debate backwards, from the least mentioned part
in the region: Mauritania. And rightly so, as would agree
most who know the country and its internal problems.
However, today is the moment to turn southwards, as the
country has just returned to the news headlines: Once again,
a military regime has taken over the country, arresting the
first democratically elected president who recently tried to
put an end to the differences with the army by sacking its
commander. The forces reacted by a putsch.
What are your thoughts, Ahmed, about Mauritania and how it
is reflected internationally, its role in the Sahrawi
conflict, its retreat from the territory and the differences
with Morocco? It does not have the power to interfere any
longer, does it?
If someone more was interested, i might put down a few notes
on what i know, believe, have heared and lived about the
region.
Dear Mark,
Many thanks for the above
In fact, Mauritania is returning to trouble after a year of hope and democracy but corruption was still running. Corruption is the evil of the third world. It's hard to eradicate. It's very complex situation when few people look for their interests more than the national one. They can do everything to keep their advantages and privileges and we got the proof two days ago. We, the moroccans from western sahara and from the north are very sad about that. I hope that Mauritania will pass through this hard period very quickly otherwise we will probably get in our borders another military regime in the back of the mauritanian government. The experience of the region isn't glorious in that matter as you can imagine.
This kind of governorship will let the country as well as the region very unstable. That deserves the north african integration claimed by the international community.
Regarding what you said about the norwegian company. I think that there was a financial problem between OCP company in charge of phosphate exploitation in Morocco and the norwegian firm. The contrat stopped because of a financial disagreement no more nor less. Everything else is about propaganda and misinformation. I believe in a globalized world with limited natural resources a company can't stop the livelihood of thousands of his HR to make other foreign people living so far away happy. It doesn't make sense !!
Regards
Ahmed Salem
Dear Mark,
Just to let you and the readers know more about this usual polisario propaganda on the Western Sahara phosphates. I went throug the website of the OCP group and I got this :
==
Phosphate mining and beneficiation, OCP Group's historical activities, are now grouped together within the Mining Pole. These activities are conducted in four mining centres located in three regions of the country.
1. Khouribga site
2. Youssoufia site
3. Benguerir site
4. Boucraa-Laayoune site
1. Khouribga site :
The site is composed of three mining areas. Here, the deposit is of sedimentary type and reserves are estimated at over 35 billion m3…
2. Youssoufia site :
…The reserves are of the order of 10.2 billion m3…
3. Benguerir site :
…The present stage aims at increasing the extraction output from 3.10 to 4.5 million tons a year by 2018…
And finally :
4. Boucraa-Laayoune site
…The reserves are estimated at 1.13 billion m3…
As you can see, the kingdom of Morocco invested more than what he got and what he getting from the region. Boucraa-Laayoune site represents 1% of the total reserves of the country.
So please, don't be convinced systematically with what you read on Internet about Western Sahara issue.
The first one to talk is not necessarily the one to be trusted.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
In other words, the kingdom of Morocco is not getting rich thanks to the Western Sahara phosphates.
Please visit this website :
http://www.sahara-developpement.com to see how the region has been developing since 1975.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
Thank you Mr Panzner, for your translation and thank you Mr Salem for your advice, it is hard to see those bulk lies about my country and keep watching, I prefer to see the truth high and loud, all those ex-cold war slogans, every one can see that Polisario is Algeria, simply you don't have to go far, all the Algerian diplomacy turn arround the moroccan western sahra 'that set' all the moves morocco do internationally, is fallowed straight by algeria' an exemple : the visit of influent mauritania parliament members, and they said that they support moroccan solution three days later Mauritania president was called to algiers for discussion, and then at the end of the visit he said they support the UN effort and they will keep neutral!
what kind of threteness he get from the algerian military regime?
what about the Mali stability?
who is supporting the toureg (financing and training) to destabilize mali?
the same Algeria they knows that there's oil in northern Mali, Algeria wants to keep this region under permanent pressur, to take the leadershipp, but infortunately ' simply no one trust them because of the terror, the only night mare of algeria is a strong morocco why?
they are afraid that the kbylians (ethnic groups) in the north of the country arount 7 million wants the independence, so to avoid this big defeat.
next year algeria will be the greatest weapon buyer of russia, 10 billion us $, more than china why?
i don't think fighting terror will requier all those heavy weapons!
so EU should be concerned by a growing military power at thier back door, we though that Sadam was a friend until we discover his real face(i agree with some good thing he did in his life for his country)
i will discuss this later…
Thank you for your interesting information. i must admit i
did not know much about the number both of you (Ahmed,
Jalal) cited. so, i am going to comment about what i do
know:
As for the EU, dont worry about them! Neither Morocco nor
Algeria may pose any military threat on the numbers 3 to 5
on the world list of military powers: UK, France, Germany
spend more than 30 billion US$ a year (IISS, London, 2002:
Military Balance 2002-2003, as cited in "El Atlas de Le
Monde Diplomatique", abril 2003). In other words, every
single of these countries spends far more money on arms then
the African continent altogether.
And whenever numbers appear, we must of course not forget
that they are always biassed by two major factors: Firstly,
by the means and aims of those who present them, and
secondly, because there are always reasons that justify
concentrating on this or that, including or excluding
sectors and parts (e.g, do you only include light weapons in
this statistics, or do you add if aircrafts and carriers –
the numbers will be much higher!).
But the most important sourrce of diffrernces between the
numbres is the sheer mathematical fact that in economy, sums
are calculated not in nominal values, but rather in real
values — usually, in dollars held constant to the value of
a certain year. And as we know, by the mere fact of
inflation, this may result in differences of several hundred
percent(!), depending on the year the value refers to.
Take Algerian economy as an example
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria):
GDP (PPP) 2006 estimate
– Total $253.4 billion (38th)
– Per capita $8,100 (2007 est.) (88th)
GDP (nominal) 2007 estimate
– Total $131.026 billion (48th)
– Per capita $3,825 (84th)
This does _not_ mean that from 2006 to 2007, PPP (purchasing
power parity) per capita has diminshed to less than the half
and simultaneously this was a progress, comparing to the
rest of the world (lifting the rank from 88th to 84th best
in the world).
So, the discrepancy in numbers may be quite stunning, but
has its base in simple mathematics, not lies or errors.
On nominal GDP and (real) PPP, compare for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
I have attended this debate from the beginning only to see what further readings make the two sides, but especially the Moroccan side (with his autonomy plan). And I must say that I have brought nothing new: Morrocans avoid all kinds of questions that they have to do with the legal justification of the conflict, introduce other issues unrelated to this conflict to mislead other people, do not provide solid and well-founded arguments. And above all they introduce sensationalist topics such as terrorism and corruption to disparage. And what I was missing: They try to give us the impression that morocco, their imaginary Morocco, is a free, democratic and just country, where prevail freedom of speech and press, there is no corruption, and so many others good qualifiers (it will be in their imaginary big ideal Morocco). That's all I needed. I have been in Morocco for a period and I know very well what I'm talking about. Fortunately, they are just two. However, what these two do not know is that we, the citizens who live in what's so-called "free democracies", know from experience suspect about those bad intentions and manipulated information, and what is even better, we collate and compare informations. Do not expect us to believe your sensationalistic theories: the lack of academic rigor, ridiculous tone of their comments, etc. say it all. An intelligent person doesnt trust what the portal "Polisario confidential" (Morocco) says, or even what "arso.org" (Western Sahara) says. There are independent organizations that deal with the historical and legal perspective. Perhaps they believe that we are in Morocco, but do not blame them, perhaps that is what they have taught in their ideal country.
I expected sirious perspective from Moroccan side, but what I found ring a bell to me…
THE TRUTH IS FREEDOM. LIES HAVE VERY SHORT PAWS
Anne! if it's your real name???
Madame or Mister Anne, i think that you think that we are naif or stupid? evey one know exactly the history of morocco, and the sahara and mauritania and the half of senegal belonged to morocco, check the 1777 manuscrits to find out that you are the real one who try to misslead the readers with your false accusations, and i think with more than 7.5 million tourists a year, we can proove that the freedom is a fact in morocco, you can take any tourist and ask him!
and belive me you never been in morocco, it's a far dream for bad mided people like you.
i think seriousely that you have a sicological problem, you should be ashamed simply, you are one of the gys whom was writing upthere, you throw here your poison words, believing that people like you will make a difference, by using a different manner to attract believers, but simply it not working, because it's an old fashined manner.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
let as talk seriousely Mr Panzner,
do you know that normally the gpd of a country when rise sudenly that means there a plan behind that?
for example when you have a plan to encrease the infrastructure you spend more money, or in education or in health, but when you touch the arms that means there are a secret plan, is not to secure the country, because is enought secured , by adding more than 300.000 police agents, there are a raising revolution in the kabylian side, you have just to fallow the news, and the algerian gouvenment want to make up this internal battle.
the most treng in all this is there' a kabylian opposition abroad and no body want to be linked to them, no 1 country, simply because they supply Europe in natural Gas, Algeria spend 6 % of thier GPD in weapon but the last years they sepnt more than 8, who is behid this?
2 logical answears :
1- algeria wants to buy the russian support in the region ( every one know why) URSS ghost
2- to lead a race to armament, to make morocco weaker economecly, becauase he will fallow to keep the strenght balance.
the polisario problem as you can see, is purley moroccan algerian, and you can see that all what algeria do is and around this issue, check thier official gouvernement media!
their diplomacy movement, you can see just when morocco visit a country(officials) you find algeria runnig to talk with this country about the sahara.
moroccan development plans, the tangiers port or harbor, the mosk , the highways, simpy they copy every thing, the neghtmare of the algerian coronels, is that one day morocco lead north africa.
latley the algerian president declared that his 10 years economy raising plan has field!
why?
when you want to fallow or 'take another country like an example' you have to make all right desition, (yes they have money) but the plans just to fallow and to keep the minimum economy gap, but when you see that you simply copy and you want to build the bisggest port ' bigger than morocco' and you can't free the internal market is simply stupid, the investors need security and stability, and real freedom to invest, you find this in algeria simply not! so inderectley i replayed to some noise makers around here.
the algerian youth is leaving massively the country , they prefer to die in the sea instead of stying in the country.
algeria is living what morocco was experiencing in the 90ties.
The Question of Sovereignty in the Western Sahara Conflict
Jacob Mundy,
Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies
University of Exeter
http://arso.org/mundy2008_canaries.doc
La cuestión de la soberanía en el conflicto del Sahara Occidental
Jacob Mundy,
Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies,
University of Exeter
http://arso.org/mundy2008_canaries_esp.doc
The Spanish newspaper EL PAÍS, the same lobbyist newspaper which obliged me to write and cry HYPOCRITES ! has published today (18 August 2008) half (only half) a Letter to the Editor. Here you have my own translation into English:
SAHARA, by Antònia Pons
That behind the question of Western Sahara there are lobbyists influencing information, governments, political parties and the UN itself is unquestionable. However, they have failed to settle in their favor the Spanish public, who does not understand realpolitik or geostrategic interests.
There are many families in Spain who see the question of Western Sahara through the eyes of a child. The Sahrawi children, refugees in the Hamada, come year after year to spend the summer holidays with host families. They do not bring any baggage at all, maybe some gift and any letter without a stamp from the oblivion to which the powerful have condemned all their people. The Spaniards receive through their eyes a lesson in justice.
That is why we believe that the Sahrawis should speak, to decide their own destiny by themselves. And that's why many of us assume the responsibility that neither the governments of Spain nor the arbitrators of the world have wanted to take.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/opinion/Sahara/elpepuopi/20080818elpepiopi_9/Tes
——-The other half Letter to the Editor NOT PUBLISHED by the newspaper says as follows:
We have seen the suffering of the refugees and their hard every day. We know the agony of those who remained in Western Sahara through the testimonies of people who had related it.
If we were at an impasse, the sensible, normal and reasonable would be to return on our steps and find another way.
That do not come illustrious professors to tell us about morality in the Hamada, we neither need any mediator to tell us how we should manage our hopes or whom we should give them to.
We don't need any journalist to tell us what happens there, because we already know it.
In Africa there is a Territory without decolonize which was abandoned by Spain and invaded by Morocco.
We should start from the very beginning: they must return them their own Land and let them speak.
Everything else is plainly superfluous.
http://saharaponent.blogspot.com/2008/08/empezar-por-el-principio.html
Nota bene — "Jalal Nali" is a manic troll who assumes new identities for every blog he visits (= anything that mentions W. Sahara), and he seems to be at least two people in this thread. The guy is a loon and a one-man flamewar, just ignore him.
M. Luis, you are making your propaganda for the account of the polisario not to end the sufferings of the Sahraouis in the camps of shame but to face the moroccan regime as many of you. That makes the debate a little bit inconvinient to the western sahara conflict.
You are doing your best from the beginning to discredit the moroccan regime so what is your motivation on that? Are you really supporting a happy end to the western sahara conflict? I personally don't think so. In such case, you have nothing positive in this debate. What's your added value in this conflict? NOTHING apart simple propaganda and very old speech which will never be.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
THIS COMMENT IS BY LUIS, THERE WAS SOME PROBLEM WITH THE COMMENTS PAGE, AND IT'S BEING POSTED ON HIS BEHALF
Luis Portillo http://www.tlaxcala.es/pp.asp?reference=4965&lg=en
To the Propagandist of a "happy end":
You know perfectly well that you're not writing for me, but for new confused people appearing by this blog, in order to see if you get to trick them with your lies and your bad art in the service of the Majzen.
What I had to say is already said and written publicly, in my article HYPOCRITES! at the beginning of these lines and in all my writings, which are available on the Internet for anyone who wants to read them.
Your task, on the contrary, is endless, every day once and again at all Internet sites. Hier, in this Blog, you started attacking Mary Rizzo, already in the first comment; then, you followed asserting that all other commentators are propagandists of the Polisario; Ali Lmrabet is not Ali Lmrabet; Anne is crazy and should go to a psychiatrist… and, finally, I am a propagandist from Polisario.
You, you are in possession of truth, your truth, Majzen’s truth, like GOEBBELS: A thousand times a lie turns out to be a truth. All others — except the “sicarios” of the Majzen— we are idiots.
Morocco’s king conducted a conquest and a cruel and bloody occupation and now wants a "happy end" to its taste and whim. You are simply storytellers, not to employ other thicker words.
It should be a great honor if I should speak in favour of (not " make propaganda for the account of", as you assert) the Polisario Front and, therefore, in favor of the Sahrawi people, whom the Government of Morocco bombed with napalm and forced to flee to the refugee camps in Tindouf. And the population that remained in the Occupied Sahara is simply terrified by the Moroccan daily repression. This is well known. Morocco is acting with complete impunity. My article "HYPOCRITES!", I think, makes things quite clear.
To quote scientific or legal literature and transcribe a letter from a reader to the Director of the newspaper El Pais is not "to make propaganda for the account of the Polisario", as you pretend, but to bring real facts to the attention of readers. Let everyone get their own conclusions.
The Moroccan regime bears all responsibility for the situation in the Tindouf refugee camps. And besides, would be happy to see them dying of hunger and exhaustion. To you and your regime never mattered the lives of those refugees: you simply stole their land and attempted to exterminate them. You did not get it right. And they remain keeping high, very high, the banner of dignity and their desire to live in peace and freedom.
The Moroccan government has repeatedly and systematically prevented the Sahrawis from freely express their wishes. Why? What you have fear from? Your real practice has been to buy wills and prostitute people. You have prostituted even the United Nations Security Council. But the truth is written and will triumph. The International Court of Justice –ironically at the request of Morocco and Mauritania, in a new attempt to delay the holding of the referendum on self-determination- ruled that Western Sahara belonged to its indigenous population, not to Morocco, nor to Mauritania. Despite that ruling, Morocco invaded, occupied, robbed, raped, killed…
Here, the only one who is spreading genuine propaganda and poisoning with the aberrations of the Majzen are you and your fellows of “service”, as a comment posted to an article by IAN WILLIAMS in the British newspaper THE GUARDIAN makes clear enough:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/15/unitednations.spain
· “Yes, its you who really are always the same people, trained and paid officials of the secret services of Morocco, lying, lying and lying everywhere on all the sites on Internet, attacking and denigrating everybody who does not say what your chiefs want you to say. You only know using lies, deception and force, just as with the invasion and occupation of Western Sahara.
“WESTERN SAHARA HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF MOROCCO. The International Court of Justice has already made it clear. WESTERN SAHARA HAS ALWAYS BEEN INDEPENDENT FROM MOROCCO, EVEN TARFAYA. You use only brute force, as your heads.
“To you and your heads, the MORE THAN 50 UN RESOLUTIONS AND THE ONES FROM THE ORGANISATION OF AFRICAN UNITY simply mean nothing at all. Morocco has not fulfilled a single resolution, JUST LIKE ISRAEL.
“To you, TRUTH AND INTERNATIONAL LEGALITY are of no value, simply annoy you too. You dont say anything else than crap and more lies. You repeat yourself everywhere, always the same lies and attacks. You have nothing new to say except to deny all evidence of international legality.
“NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS RECOGNIZED THE SOVEREIGNTY OF MOROCCO OVER WESTERN SAHARA. Morocco is simply a cruel invader and an illegal occupier of a territory that does not belong to it but to the Sahrawi People.
“Neither John Bolton, nor Frank Ruddy, nor Ali Lmrabet, nor Thmas M. Franck, nor Luis Portillo, nor Jacob Mundy… None from these people tell the truh. Neither United Nations. Neither the International Court of Justice. Only you and your chiefs.
“Please, read and study the documents –and think a little!- before proceeding saying crap. You just repeat what your bosses, the criminals of Mahkzen, tell you to say. They pay you to practice sabotage across the Internet. You are simply intoxicated and sold.
“Once for all, let the Sahrawi people in PEACE. They arent like you. You are worse than hyenas and jackals. You dont care about anything, just want your colonial-imperialist conquest.
“The Polisario Front is the legitimate representative of the Saharawi People. The only terrorist in this story is the Moroccan state invading, occupying illegally and violating all human rights.
“The Question of Sovereignty in the Western Sahara Conflict
Jacob Mundy, Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies, University of Exeter
http://arso.org/mundy2008_canaries.doc
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/15/unitednations.spain
And concerning "my own contribution to solving the problem", is Morocco self who must deal with it, not me. Nevertheless, I have done, any case, my positive contribution in the course of this… discusión (?): Morocco shall fulfil the more than 50 unfulfilled UN resolutions; the international community shall compel Morocco to withdraw from the illegally occupied territory of Western Sahara; Chapter VII of the UN Charter should be applied to the Majzen pirates; and last but not least, the Saharan people must be able to express themselves freely in a referendum with all options open (also INDEPENDENCE) and with all due legal and democratic guarantees.
This is not something that I say, but what international legality requires. And that is also reflected in the Proposal submitted by the Polisario Front to UN Secretary-General for discussion in the Security Council (even though the Moroccan rulers ordered to remove Internet links leading to the Proposal of the Polisario Front).
And of course, "HYPOCRITES!" is a broad denunciation of realpolitik practiced with the Western Sahara and the Saharawi people, but also an earnest appeal to the international community demanding justice and calling for the application and respect of international legality.
"http://arso.org/mundy2008_canaries.doc"
This website comes from ARSO, a well known support association to Polisario and algerian theses. That is not impartial
"http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/15/unitednations.spain"
As you can read that is not about the guardian view, that's about the comment is free item and I can send you many articles where international intellectuals are saying that the reality of Western Sahara is different from what you can get on Internet.
Now that unionist sahraouis are talking on Internet you and your collegues are becoming crazy! The sole thing you have to discredit our comments and posts is to say that we are paid for that. Poor you! you are wasting your time on supporting a communist cause which will never be. Poor you, you are dishonest on trying to dissociate the genesis of Polisario from the conflict story. Communism doesn't succeed on Spain and you are supporting maybe the last communist cause in the world to make it successful. You have nothing else to do maybe one thing : attack the moroccan regime.
You were mislead about the creation of the camps and you continue to believe on the story you got during the well controlled visits to Tindouf camps. BLA BLA BLA… and what about the majority of sahraouis who made the right choice to stay in Western Sahara and not to trust the algerians and the polisario leaders after the green march? Are they mirages? What about the sahraouis who have high positions locally and in the moroccan government? What about the sahraouis who are ambassadors? What about the sahraouis who are seating in the moroccan parliament? Are they also mirages?
You are far from the reality of the region. You have certainely you and your (dis)honest collegues a certain motivation to face the moroccan monarchy : you all are from the extrem left and you hait royalties.
If that is your motivation, you have to be honest to consider the will of the unionist sahraouis in Western Sahara. You can't say each time you get another view of the usual version that people are working for makhzen. If all unionist sahraoui are paid by makhzen to rectify what was spread on Internet for more than a decade so what about you? Are you paid by the algerian militaries?
A former political prisoner Sahrawi arrested in Smara.
http://canarias24horas.com/index.php/2008082654114/internacional/un-antiguo-preso-politico-saharaui-detenido-en-smara.html
Redaction – C24H
Tusday 26 August, 2008
Smara / Moroccan occupation forces have arrested the former political prisoner Ahmed Saharan Berkuh overnight from Friday to Saturday in demonstrations triggered by two avenues of the cultural capital of Western Sahara, Smara, legal local sources indicated.
The former Saharawi political prisoner remains in custody pending his trial scheduled for Monday, according to the same sources, adding that it has been savagely tortured and mistreated at the premises of the judicial police.
Several Sahrawi citizens were waving flags of the SADR and singing phrases calling for the immediate withdrawal of the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara and the Saharawi people to exercise their inalienable right to self-determination and independence, before being brutally dispersed by the Moroccan repressive forces.
Several people were seriously injured during a sitting demonstration organized in front of the police to demand the release of Saharawi former political prisoner, including the brother of Ahmed Berkuh Ahmed, whose name is Mbarek Berkuh, and his sister Safia Berkuh.
According to both brothers, who were beaten by the torturer Isshag Mohammed, his brother would have been savagely tortured at the premises of the judicial police in the city.
Moreover several more demonstrations were organized in the villages of Auinet Eighmann, Aueinet Elhena (Terkez) and Mhamid Elghezlan, located south of Morocco, by the citizens of these places, mostly Sahrawis, calling for the immediate and unconditional release of the Sahrawi political prisoners who are in Moroccan prisons.
In addition, the Sahrawi citizens of these localities expressed their solidarity with the political prisoners and their adherence to the sole legitimate representative of his people, the Polisario Front.
Comments of a Sahrawi citizen:
The more unworthy, unscrupulous and inhumane are the enemies (the makhzen of Morocco and its repressive authorities), the more clean, transparent and faithful to its ideals have been Sahrawis. We sahrawis learned very early that the attachment to our prinicipios and ethics of our struggle are the most powerful weapon of the revolution. So what does or fails to make the feudal monarchy of Morocco with our dear brothers, we will not surrender. On the contrary, we will strengthen the fight over closing ranks. While there is a single Sahrawi alive, the Sahara will never be Moroccan. Because its inhabitants have already been spoken for their independence and the creation of an independent and sovereign State.
Long life to the struggle of peoples.
Long life to the energic Sahrawi people.
Some of the responsibilities of France on the question of Western Sahara.
Georges Vedel, organic intellectual of state-and national reforms and of the power of technocrats, inside and outside France. In line with Laroui (Morocco) and Barnabé López García (Spain). Social Democrats cats browns to serve monarchies or republics dressed in anti-colonial costumes…
This French "great jurist" -son of a general colonial born in Morocco- was commissioned by Hassan II to make the report to defend the thesis of "Moroccan Sahara" before the International Court of Justice in The Hague.
So when France intends to wash their hands in this matter, it is clear that it was a French law firm (the same as that dealt with preparing the draft European Constitution paid by Brussels under the proposal from Paris) the one which defended the thesis of Morocco (which, of course, were the same as those of France) before the International Court in The Hague.
Later, the Court rejected it from the very beginning to the very end, but the French had been in this mess and, of course, had pocketed a good deal of money….
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Vedel
A former political prisoner Sahrawi arrested in Smara.
http://canarias24horas.com/index.php/2008082654114/internacional/un-antiguo-preso-politico-saharaui-detenido-en-smara.html
Smara / Moroccan occupation forces have arrested the former political prisoner Ahmed Saharan Berkuh overnight from Friday to Saturday in demonstrations triggered by two avenues of the cultural capital of Western Sahara, Smara, legal local sources indicated.
The former Saharawi political prisoner remains in custody pending his trial scheduled for Monday, according to the same sources, adding that it has been savagely tortured and mistreated at the premises of the judicial police.
Several Sahrawi citizens were waving flags of the SADR and singing phrases calling for the immediate withdrawal of the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara and the Saharawi people to exercise their inalienable right to self-determination and independence, before being brutally dispersed by the Moroccan repressive forces.
Several people were seriously injured during a sitting demonstration organized in front of the police to demand the release of Saharawi former political prisoner, including the brother of Ahmed Berkuh Ahmed, whose name is Mbarek Berkuh, and his sister Safia Berkuh.
According to both brothers, who were beaten by the torturer Isshag Mohammed, his brother would have been savagely tortured at the premises of the judicial police in the city.
Moreover several more demonstrations were organized in the villages of Auinet Eighmann, Aueinet Elhena (Terkez) and Mhamid Elghezlan, located south of Morocco, by the citizens of these places, mostly Sahrawis, calling for the immediate and unconditional release of the Sahrawi political prisoners who are in Moroccan prisons.
In addition, the Sahrawi citizens of these localities expressed their solidarity with the political prisoners and their adherence to the sole legitimate representative of his people, the Polisario Front.
Comment of a Sahrawi citizen to the above news:
The more unworthy, unscrupulous and inhumane are the enemies (the makhzen of Morocco and its repressive authorities), the more clean, transparent and faithful to its ideals have been Sahrawis. We sahrawis learned very early that the attachment to our prinicipios and ethics of our struggle are the most powerful weapon of the revolution. So what does or fails to make the feudal monarchy of Morocco with our dear brothers, we will not surrender. On the contrary, we will strengthen the fight over closing ranks. While there is a single Sahrawi alive, the Sahara will never be Moroccan. Because its inhabitants have already been spoken for their independence and the creation of an independent and sovereign State.
Long life to the struggle of peoples.
Long life to the energic Sahrawi people.
http://canarias24horas.com/index.php/2008082654114/internacional/un-antiguo-preso-politico-saharaui-detenido-en-smara.html
Moroccan repression in El-ayoune (occupied western sahara )
http://es.video.yahoo.com/watch/133451/817232
Western Sahara among the world's most repressive societies.
In a report launched May 6th 2008, American NGO Freedom House rates the situation for political rights and civil liberties in the occupied Western Sahara on the same level of countries such as Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe and Belarus.
Published: 07.05 – 2008 http://www.vest-sahara.no/index.php?cat=71&art=925
Tribal elders confirm loyalty to His Majesty the King (8/4/2008)
Saharan tribal elders confirmed permanent mobilization behind His Majesty King Mohammed VI and continuing endeavour for the preservation of the Kingdom’s territorial unity and the defence of national shrines.
During a ceremony held Sunday to mark the ninth anniversary of His Majesty the King, sheiks stressed their attachment to the holy bonds of allegiance inherited from their parents and grandparents, expressing satisfaction over the positions taken by His Majesty King Mohamed VI in addition to his wise initiatives in order to preserve Morocco's national unity and territorial integrity and strengthen democracy.
On this occasion, they expressed warm congratulations and sincere wishes to His Majesty, wishing him good health, happiness and long life, and to Moroccan people further progress and prosperity, under the brilliant leadership of His Majesty.
Tribal elders expressed close adherence to the throne as well as their standing behind His Majesty, asking the Almighty to preserve His Majesty, His Royal Highness Prince Moulay Hassan, His Royal Highness Prince Moulay Rachid and all members of the illustrious Royal family.
Source : Corcas
USA reiterates support for Peter van Walsum and his efforts to settle Sahara issue (8/6/2008)
The United States has shown "unequivocal support" for the UN Secretary-General's Personal Envoy for the Sahara, Peter van Walsum, deeming "impartial" and "realistic" his efforts to settle the Sahara issue, said a U.S. diplomatic source quoted Tuesday by the Moroccan daily "Aujourd'hui le Maroc".
"The United States supports the negotiations sponsored by the United Nations and the current UN mediator, Peter van Walsum. We believe that his efforts have been impartial and realistic and have promoted dialogue between the parties. These are the qualities needed to settle the conflict," said the same source.
According to the French-speaking daily, the new American statement "is in line with maintaining the UN mediator, against the will of Algiers that has embarked on a hostile campaign against the UN diplomat," accusing him of "bias" for "having simply said out loud what everyone was thinking, by concluding the unreality of the fanciful thesis of independence".
Beyond the unequivocal support it provides to the current UN mediator, says the daily, this American position reaffirms the support of Washington for the autonomy solution, deeming it "realistic".
In this respect, the daily recalls that the U.S. Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, had already stood up for the UN facilitator, following his report of April 15 last year before the Security Council, wherein he had rejected the option of “independence” advocated by the Polisario and Algeria, describing it as “unrealistic” and not “feasible”.
She had also said that the ideas and suggestions made by Peter van Walsum “deserved to be seriously taken into consideration.”
“Our position on the Sahara remains unchanged, we believe that an autonomy that is mutually accepted is the realistic solution to the Sahara issue, and we have urged both sides to proceed on this basis,” the U.S. diplomatic source, who called on the Polisario to attend a fifth round of negotiations, told the daily.
“The Polisario has entered into direct negotiations with Morocco over the Sahara since June 2007. It freely entered into these negotiations with a mediator mutually agreed on, namely the UN Secretary-General’s Personal Envoy for the Sahara, Peter van Walsum,” recalled the U.S. diplomatic source.
Since June 2007, delegations from Morocco, Polisario, Algeria and Mauritania have taken part in Manhasset, near New York, in four rounds of negotiations under the aegis of the United Nations and in the presence of Mr. van Walsum in his capacity as facilitator of the negotiations.
Source : Corcas
PP regrets Polisario's radicalization, warns Sahara conflict could exhaust international community (8/12/2008)
The Spanish Popular Party (PP) on Friday regretted the "radicalization" of the Polisario Front and warned that the Sahara conflict "could exhaust the international community."
In a statement to the Spanish news agency "Servimedia", the spokesman of the PP Foreign Affairs Committee in Congress, Gustavo de Aristegui, said "the concept of autonomy is not incompatible with that of self-determination."
De Aristegui referred to the statements of the United Nations Secretary-General's Personal Envoy for the Sahara, Peter van Walsum, in which he had rejected the option of independence of this region.
"What we call for is a feasible solution, i.e. it should not be utopian and can be accepted by both [opposing] parties" "within the framework of the United Nations and international legality," said De Aristegui.
"It is obvious," he said, "that the international community should stick to what the United Nations say," since the UN attitude "must be accepted".
De Aristegui called for finding a “stable, lasting and peaceful” solution to a “conflict that could deteriorate and exhaust, not only the parties but also the international community,” which would undermine the stability of the region.
However, he warned against a “radicalization” of the Polisario Front, which put forward its proposals with “extreme rigidity and inflexibility” at the last round of negotiations, held in Manhasset.
In this respect, De Aristegui recommended the parties adopt more openness on “dialogue and negotiation”, as Peter Van Walsum himself has described the last four rounds of negotiation “as “sterile because there was a fixed position by the Polisario.”
In addition, De Aristegui stressed that an agreement between Morocco and the Polisario, granting a “larger autonomy” to the region, “is not incompatible either with the concept of self-determination, nor with that of a referendum.”
This concept of “self-determination does not necessarily mean independence” and is “a principle of international law” which can be applied “to decolonization processes,” said De Aristegui, so that “extreme nationalists” cannot “set out to these concepts in order to claim the independence of their territories against the majority opinion of the inhabitants of these territories,” he concluded.
Source : Corcas
Van Walsum criticizes Spanish civil society for creating 'false hopes' on the independence of Sahara (8/11/2008)
The United Nations Secretary-General's Personal Envoy for the Sahara, Peter van Walsum, has criticized the Spanish civil society for having encouraged "Polisario" to bank on independence and contributed to "prolonging the agony" of the people held in the Tindouf camps (southwest of Algeria).
In an interview with the Spanish daily "El Pais", published on Friday, Mr. van Walsum called upon "Spaniards who are really concerned about the well-being of Sahrawis to wonder if they are acting properly by encouraging Polisario to insist on total independence."
Calling for reaching a "consensual solution based on the reality on the ground," Mr. van Walsum underlined that "the political reality on the ground is in the hands of Morocco."
Since June 2007, delegations from Morocco, Polisario, Algeria and Mauritania have taken part in Manhasset, near New York, in four rounds of negotiations under the aegis of the United Nations, in the presence of Mr. van Walsum in his capacity as facilitator of the negotiations.
In a report before the Security Council on April 15, Mr. van Walsum has dismissed the option of “independence” advocated by Polisario and Algiers, calling it “unrealistic” and “unfeasible.”
Source : El Pais
Thank you, Ahmed Salem, for providing us with information from Corcas, a source absolutely truthful, "neutral" and independent, such as you are claiming again and again. Thank you also for giving us information from the newspaper El Pais "selected" by Corcas. But you should give complete information …
El País has long ceased to be (and to name itself) "independent", by own decision. Now is "global" and all indications are that this newspaper agrees with the objectives of the pro-Moroccan lobby and, therefore, of Corcas. In fact, El País does not allow to publish views contrary to the lobby, while trying to silence and discredit the movement of solidarity with the Sahrawi People.
This newspaper has been many months avoiding addressing the issue of the Sahara, considered taboo by its Directorate (and the rest of the lobby). And, with the excuse of Van Walsum, and terrified by the growing movement of solidarity with the Sahrawi People and what is planned for autumn, has seized August, the month through, -summer holidays- to launch "urbi et orbe" Morocco's message -and therefore, the message from the lobby-, so that when we Spaniards will return to work in September, we'll come with the duties done and "reality" assumed.
The newspaper had already published the Van Walsum's "news" in April, ie is not a novelty. And now in August, the newspaper has published the same information three times, with an unprecedented deployment, so that the "ideas" launched will not pass unnoticed… It is no mystery to anyone (of 4,420 visits to the site, only 50 people voted the “news”). Surely, both El Pais and Van Walsum will be answered in due course. For now, both the Polisario and Ban Ki-moon have given their own answer.
Now let me add a few pieces of information that you or Corcas don't mention (Source: El País):
"UN has kept secret the non-renewal of the mandate, but Van Walsum, 74 years old, has decided to anticipate the disclosure of his departure in a Tribune that today publishes El País." (It seems to be a …special relationship between VW and this newspaper).
"The predecessor of Van Walsum, the American James Baker, resigned in June 2004 when realizing the inability to implement his plan for the Sahara, despite having been adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council, because Rabat rejected holding a referendum contemplating independence. The then Moroccan minister of Foreign Affairs, Mohamed Benaissa, attributed the resignation of Baker "to the tenacity of Morocco's diplomacy." (Is that clear enough?).
"On August 8, Mohamed Abdelaziz sent a letter to Ban Ki-moon in which he said that his personal envoy "has disqualified himself " by taking a pro-Moroccan position."
"U.S., France, Spain and also [!] Morocco provided, however, its support for the personal envoy [VW]." (That is, as always, the "Friends" of Western Sahara).
"Despite being crossed out of pro-Moroccan, Van Walsum is the sole representative of the secretary-general who has dared to argue that international law is on the side of the Polisario, but that the Security Council would not use its powers to impose it on Morocco. Hence the impossibility of the Sahara to be independent someday, according to him." (Is that clear? It is VW self who says that, but you … do not say anything about that).
"Van Walsum has also had disagreements with Ban Ki-moon, who appointed him more than three years ago. This, contrary to custom, refused to include in April, in his latest report on Western Sahara, the comments of his personal envoy on the ground that could harm the negotiating process, according to sources from the General Secretariat. For more than four months Ban Ki-moon and Van Walsum had no contact, but the personal envoy refuses to clarify which was his relationship with her boss. "(That is, it seems that there are also some more problems ..) .
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/ONU/prescinde/enviado/Sahara/Occidental/elpepiint/20080828elpepiint_11/Tes
And here you have the "Tribune" published by El País:
Sahara's long and troubled conflict
By PETER VAN WALSUM – 28/08/2008
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Sahara/s/long/and/troubled/conflict/elpepuint/20080828elpepuint_5/Tes
Saying that El Pais is supporting the moroccan vision of Western Sahara conflict is simply an allegation and misinformation. It's well known that El Pais has never supported the moroccan regime.
It's pity any objective article about Western Sahara is associated by the algerians and their supporters to the moroccan propaganda !!!!
Anyway I am happy with the last article relating the views of M. Walsum. He remains honest and credible till the end : realpolitik is stronger than any of the parties. Many thanks for this post.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
http://www.euronews.net/en/article/28/08/2008/growing-voice-of-the-bewildered-in-western-sahara/
This link is a reportage from Euronews about horrible polisario exactions in Tindouf camps.
You will also learn that Tindouf camps population come from the bordering countries (Mauritania…). So 1000$ question : are all of people in Tindouf camps originally from Western Sahara as polisario leaders pretend?
In such case, has the referendum a sense? I wonder
TO Mr Alle!
as smart you are, you 'my supposed steps?' and what about you if I visit all about the W.sahara issue, you visit them too! right, so I will simply blame you of the same you are Blaming me.
and i will not dessent to your level, and i will defend my country as a Moroccan Saharawi, you like it or not!
and you can see that i defend my country with my real name, i don't use any nickname, as you do, and in ' invest-in-morocco- blog you have my photo, not like you who get money from 'god knows where to defend terrorists and killers, who retain poeple in algerian camps and deport and spread families to keep the control of humanitarian aid'
so you go mad because Saharawis starts to expalin the real situation in the W.sahara, not the lies cominig form your algerian lords. we are free in here' and the Most Important' The Saharawis in Western Sahara 'Morocco' we are moroccan, ' you like it or not and we have our own representative CORCAS.
Ahmed Salem my friend, I can see that all the Spanish PP, is writing in this blog, which is good we can ask them by the way to free Ceuta and Melilla!
other hand they bring just sources from anti peace in the region, ANA why you don't show all the other spanish sources about the Western Sahara issue? just the few negative ones about morocco?
I think the spanish people have no right to talk about this problem, because you created it, and your lord Franco signed for it as the legal international ruler of Spain, in that period!
so what about Madrid mid this year whan polisario students in Madrid told all the truth about polisario, i think you did well by hiding this important information, later what happend to those students families in the camps? you seems like amnesique!
so please you poor and meaninless links are not adding any new in this blog, but just confirming the spanish ignorance of the international legality, morocco was ruling this territory and mauritania and part of senegal during centuries, so please stop your low cost intervention, an be honest for once in your life.
(i don't blame you, I blame the PP who still thinking with the middle age mentality, thinking that morocco is a trath as the moors freed and ruled for more than 800 years
Mr Salem please don't replay to ana, I think you know which kind of person she is ' yes a blind and a pro PP falower' i will explain to readers next time the main PP 'partido popular' points of views.
to luis portillo:
you should give the pais vasco his independence!
and Ceuta an melilla to morocco, let cabo verde rule his own affaire him self, and stop asking europe for charity to build your country.
you should pay morocco back morocco for the 49% of phosphates explotations, you should simply be honest, and let supporting the polisario terror activities, i know that in your spanish turned mentality you are afraid of a strong morocco, but what you don't know is that we are strong, already. and we have the historical legality by our side
Hi Mary – I am not much familiar with that part of Muslim world. However, I found Clayton E. Swisher, director Middle East Institute in Washington article (UPI, April 13, 2007), which mentions “Israeli Connection” in that part of Muslim world too.
“Elliot Abrams, the deputy national security adviser for global democracy strategy, is again sowing the seeds of conflict in the Middle East. This time it's in the disputed Western Sahara, under Moroccan control following the end of Spanish colonial rule in 1975.
After being marginalized from the Arab-Israeli arena, now under the almost exclusive domain of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her State Department, Abrams is pulling free the grenade pin that may shortly cause North Africa to explode. He is on the verge of achieving a major U.S. policy shift that would have Washington backing Morocco's unilateral imposition of its so-called Western Sahara Initiative, or autonomy plan upon the indigenous Sahrawi people of Western Sahara.
U.S. officials distracted by other pressing regional conflagrations first viewed Abrams' Maghreb meddling as a small price to be paid for getting him out of the Arab-Israeli domain. They barely paid attention as Abrams tinkered with a new Western Sahara strategy, an embryonic idea raised by outgoing U.S. ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton (who threatened to do away with the Western Sahara peacekeeping mission, which turned costly over time in the absence of a successful settlement).”
Right,
Instead of using this money to develop the region, we are wasting time and money to maintain the conflict. I believe the MINURSO presence participates somehow on keeping the conflict as it's is. We could wonder what would be the situation if the MINURSO had to come out from the region. The response is clair to me : both the major parties (Morocco and Algeria) will face the fait accompli. Time is for reconciliation and borders re-opening.
There will be no WAR because of the major parties (Morocco & Algeria) have many interests on keeping the region safe and prosperous.
My recommandation would be to support the departure fo the MINURSO from the region. The MINURSO didn't realize the duties she was in charge of namely
1. the organization of the referendum
2. the return of sahraoui people living in Tindouf camps to Western Sahara
In such case, why staying more to promote the status quo !!!
for the two last two funny comments, Shaoukat as Mary knows is purly arab name, so she is not familiar with the arab territorial problems, in fact she have a problem with the Mr Elliot Abrams,
The minurso have to stay, to be alife witness of the situation on site.
Referendum is a dead and forgotten idea, Mr smart, Rice said that this issue will be over soon, and algeria is loosing all her peopls billions for nothing, and for you the dream is for free, so you can dream, what about a pink world, you can give us ideas!
wake up and face the truth, the desert is moroccan and will remain moroccaon. you will regret if you don't engage real negosiation on basis of the moroccan proposal.
"…to favour a solution which respects the right to self-determination of the Sahrawi people."
MADRID´S PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES STATEMENT ON WESTERN SAHARA
http://www.uam.es/otros/uamsolidaria/manifiesto_sahara_2008_en.pdf
Let me remind you this reportage from Euronews. I am posting it again :
http://www.euronews.net/en/article/28/08/2008/growing-voice-of-the-bewildered-in-western-sahara/
In this reportage, you will learn that many mauritanians are living in Tindouf camps while Polisario leaders are pretending that all people are originally from Western Sahara. In such case, the referendum is not opportun.
You will also learn about the exactions of Polisario leaders in Tindouf camps.
PS : there is nothing new in the work of the friends of polisario leaders in Madrid!
Western Sahara and the Zionists
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/western-sahara-and-the-zionists/
Instead of reading in this blog the 'ad nauseam' repeated lies (and dirty language) of some Moroccans and Moroccan-so-called-"Moroccan Saharawis", I would very interested to read serious comments on the similitudes between the Palestinian and Saharawi causes for self-determination and independence. Besides the denial of both peoples' right to self-determination, I recall the following facts:
- part of their territory is for several decades under illegal occupation;
- the UN called for the withdrawal of the occupying forces, to no avail;
- for political and economic reasons some major States are backing the occupiers;
- human rights violations are rampant in both occupied territories;
- the occupiers brought in settlers to strengthen their hold on the territories;
- and for the same reason, they have built there 'walls of shame'.
Not surprisingly, many of the 26 contributors to the recently published 'International Law and the Question of Western Sahara' (see http://www.wsrw.org/index.php?cat=127&art=596) mention the Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice on the legal consequences of the construction of a Wall in the occupied Palestinian territory.
AMINETU HAIDAR, Western Sahara Human Rights Defender wins 2008 RFK Human Rights Award:
http://www.rfkmemorial.org/legacyinaction/2008_announce
i can see that some spanish friends, still dreaming of spanish sahara nostalgy, and they think that by supporting some killers called polisario, they will make a diference!
keep lieing we will keep living in our big morocco, spain is stugling in a rare economic crisis ' lol' so you will release hand from ceuta an melilla, regarding the Sahara, we live in our sahara, as some frustrated spanish said in one of the comments' morocco controls 80% of the territory, and the rested 20% is the UN who is controling it (and the 20pc area is a non human activity) as signed in the ceasefire of 1991. so it's belong to morocco!
i think malawi one supporter of polisario mercenairs, withraw his recognition yesterday 'deal with that'
soon the other african nations will do so, so the polisario with his algerian creator will desapear.
i'am going to take a cup of tea in the fantastic sea side of dakhla.
Long life to Morocco from tangier to lagouira
Luis Portillo,
Aminatou Haidar is supporting separatism in Western Sahara in all over the world using her MOROCCAN PASSPORT. She takes her flight from Laayoune city and returns to Laayoune city to join her family. Is that about democracy or not?
Then do you know about the history of the fight of Aminatou? She started to be separatist the last decade for some opportunist reasons. I respect her fight to promote human rights in Western Sahara and Morocco as well but I don't like her opportunism.
Aminatout Haidar won this award as moroccan sahraoui lady
"Morocco committing ’all kinds of atrocities’ in Western Sahara"
LAKHAL Malainin, ILTIS Tony
http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article6630
http://sahararesiste.blogspot.com/2008/06/morocco-committing-all-kinds-of.html
Moroccan secret service agents run Polisario Confidential, comment on blogs
So says this article by brave Moroccan paper Le Journal Hebdomaire (their site is down, so I published the article and an auto-translation in the blog archives). The article, "Cyberwar against Polisario," is a great read for anyone interested in Moroccan lobbying efforts. It cover pro-Sahrawi work both online ("une armada de bloggers") and offline. Suzanne Scholte of the Defense Forum Foundation is mentioned, as is SADR ambassador Mouloud Said setting up a headquarters in the US Congress's cafeteria.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:9V4y3mS0FC4J:onehumportwo.blogspot.com/2008/06/moroccan-secret-service-agents-run.html+Moroccan+espionage+in+western+sahara&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=es
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/2008/06/moroccan-secret-service-agents-run.html
Le Journal Hebdomaire article about Polisario Confidential's spy operators
Cyberwar against the Polisario
Since Peter Van Walsum, the special envoy of UN Secretary Sahara each door negotiations Manhasset and expressed his preference for Moroccan theses "pragmatism", as he is defended in a recent interview given the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblatt, the canvas was spawns a multitude of Internet sites promoting the "principle of realism" d1er diplomats in Rabat. Some sites developed, modern design and enriched the content of exclusive documents, photographs quality and confidential information distilled to convince the defeat of greenfield irredentist.
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/2008/03/le-journal-hebdomaire-article-about.html
Morocco maintains specially trained military commando and intelligence units that focus on protection of national interests within Morocco, especially in the Western Sahara region. The main government intelligence agency is the Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire (DST), or Directorate of Territorial Surveillance. The DST conducts most all of Morocco's intelligence operations, both foreign and domestic. The largest organizational department of the DST is the counter-intelligence unit. Though the DST is known as both an intelligence agency and a secret police force that sometimes carries out political espionage, the agency does conduct joint operations with allied foreign intelligence services.
http://www.espionageinfo.com/Lo-Mo/Morocco-Intelligence-and-Security.html
Moroccan diplomats withdrawn from Netherlands
Morocco has withdrawn two diplomats from the Netherlands amid allegations that a senior Rotterdam police officer was spying for the north African country. Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen has told Parliament he is treating very seriously claims that the policeman was passing information to the Moroccan secret service. Morocco pulled two diplomats out of its Hague embassy after the Dutch government complained about the alleged espionage, Verhagen told Parliament on Thursday. No one was available for comment at the Moroccan embassy…..(AP, 18 Sep 08)
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/18/europe/EU-Netherlands-Morocco-Spying-Spat.php
Moroccan espionage affair escalates
Rabat recalled two of its diplomats after the Dutch Foreign Ministry protested against reported attempts by the Moroccan secret service to recruit spies in the Netherlands. The ministry described the alleged espionage as "a dirty business". The diplomats were recalled several months ago, but the incident was not made known until this week when reports of the incident surfaced in the media. Earlier this week, the Dutch current affairs program NOVA reported that former police sergeant Ré Lemhaouli passed on confidential police information to the Moroccan secret service. A number of Dutch citizens of Moroccan origin later told the media that the Moroccan secret service had attempted to recruit them. The Dutch parliament will hold an emergency debate on the issue next week. The sergeant was dismissed from the police force this summer for serious dereliction of duty following an internal investigation. After the news of the alleged spying appeared in the media, the Justice Ministry announced that it would not prosecute the police officer because there was insufficient evidence……(Radio Netherlands, 18 Sep 08)
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/080918-Moroccan-espionage
Dutch FM protests Moroccan espionage attempt
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=250402&D=2008-09-19&SO=&HC=3
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/09/18/56834.html
Morocco drives out its Berbers, then spies on them
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/africa/080919-morocco-berbers-mc
Des diplomates marocains rappelés des Pays-Bas, après une affaire d'espionnage
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=Des+diplomates+marocains+rappel%C3%A9s+des+Pays-Bas%2C+apr%C3%A8s+une+affaire+d%27espionnage&btnG=Buscar+con+Google&meta=
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-37005144@7-37,0.html
After reading the article at the site of Radio Netherlands (thanks, Jose Ramirez!) I found there a comment by "our" Jalal Nali, written in the same aggressive tone and full of the same kind of spurious accusations as his postings in this site. My reaction was as follows:
I just would like to point out that Jalal Nali, the person who wrote the previous comment and affirms "I'am (sic) Moroccan berber", is the same Jalal Nali who affirmed in the site Palestine Think Tank "I'am from Layounne southern Morocco" (17 July) and "I'am Moroccan Saharawi" (23 July) – see http://palestinethinktank.com/2008/07/16/hypocrites-in-defense-of-the-sahrawi-people/. It would be an extraordinary coincidence that two different Jalal Nalis would write exactly the same error, "I'am" instead of "I am" or "I'm". Here he attacks Radio Netherlands for writing "simply fabulation and nonsens low cost stories", there he accuses the editor of the site, Mary Rizzo, of being "well paid by the Algerian regime to defend a false cause" and attacks in dozens of postings everyone who defends the right to self-determination of Western Sahara. My question: is Radio Netherlands also "well paid by the Algerian regime" or is Jalal Nali's comment another example of the panic behaviour of the Moroccan secret service?
FURTHER EVIDECENCE OF MORCCO'S ESPIONAGE IN EUROPE
Is this Spy Shariffian Regime to whom the European Community is going to conced the 'advanced status' ?
Then, the EU would be supporting all the atrocities commited by the Moroccan repressive authorities, including, of course, the illegal invasion and occupation of Western Sahara and all torture and crimes inflicted to the Sahrawi people.
We must CRY against this "advanced status". Instead, the EU should grant to the presente regime in Morocco the "CRIMINAL Status".
We know for long that the Moroccan embassies in Europe are espionage and bullying centres. The headquarters, as you know, are in Brussels. The embassies control all Moroccan emigrants, and they bribe, suborn and corrupt all foreigners they can. What is new is that for the first time the Dutch government admits the practise of espionage and bullying.
Please find below the news of yesterday and today in the Volkskrant:
de Volkskrant
Agent ontslagen wegens spionage voor Morokko
16 september 2008 – p. 1
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=Agent+ontslagen+wegens+spionage+voor+Morokko&meta=
18 september 2008 – p. 1
Onderzoek spionage
http://www.dag.nl/10100565/NIEUWS/Artikelpagina-Nieuws/Onderzoek-naar-spionage-door-brigadier.htm
19 september 2008 – p. 1
Marokkaanske bemoeienis ergert Kabinet en Kamer
SPIONNAGE / Morocco spies in Holland
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=Morocco+spies+in+Holland&meta=
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3523
Wesfarmers role in pillaging Western Sahara exposed
Norwegian insurance company, Kommunal Landspensjonskasse Mutual Insurance Company (KLP) has blacklisted Wesfarmers on account of its trade with Morocco in phosphate pillaged from Western Sahara.
In an interview with the Australian Financial Review in December 2005, then opposition foreign affairs spokesperson and current Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said that “he saw parallels between the federal government’s handling of the AWB scandal and the Western Sahara shipment”. Rudd added: “I would be dumbfounded if the Australian government had allowed commercial relationships between another Australian company and Morocco, in breach of international law.”
The Norwegian business daily Dagens Naringsliv stated on December 3 that “KLP excludes the fertiliser producer Wesfarmers as a result of illegal import of phosphate from Western Sahara. The area is occupied by Morocco, and in 2002 the UN declared all extraction of natural resources in West
Sahara as illegal.”
Please read the full article at:
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/735/38077
wow!! the coalition is becaming bigger and bigger. José Ramirez or Mohamed Ramirez or whatever as well as all the other algerians and algerian friends, you are talking about spies when it comes to Morocco but what about the Algerians/Polisario propaganda services in the algerian embassies in all over the world? What about the aids given to all sahraoui students abroad? What about the instructions given by algerian embassies to these sahraouis to make lobbying on Internet and universities? What about the support of algerian secret services (DRS) to the polisario leaders and officials in all over the world? What about the recruitement of international companies to focuse on lobbying (Political Marketing) on Internet? Is that about psychology or a strategy to maintain the conflict and the sufferings of innocent people they are not all originally from Western Sahara.
Western Sahara is in progress since 1975. Western Sahara is more stable and safe than Algeria and Mauritania. Businessess have been developped since 1975 and many people from the north of the country and the bordering countries came to Western Sahara to work and get their livelihood.
Poor all of you, I should say poor the DRS people who are getting all these profiles, your propaganda and fight to maintain the status quo in the Western Sahara issue is coming over. You will be obliged sooner or later to give up your stubborness and your monthly rewards from the conflict.
I wish you all many viruses on your PCs to stop your propaganda to maintain the sufferings of people in the camps of shame in Tindouf. Shame on you to encircle people. Shame on you to oppress people. Shame on you to torture people. Many of them are from the bordering countries. Let them return back to their homeland and let the western sahraouis return to Western sahara.
Don't forget this :
http://www.euronews.net/en/article/28/08/2008/growing-voice-of-the-bewildered-in-western-sahara/
to -Pedro Pinto Leite-and – louis portillo- aminatoo wins a non valuable prize!
who voted for it Spanish!
so it's an old trick, not important at all, keep your frustration, we will keep swiming in the white sandy moroccan sahara costern cities.
TO Mr POOR –José Ramírez**
'Morocco drives out its Berbers, then spies on them' how could morocco drive out 26 millions of berbers, so you think that 4 million of arabs will run the country?
Radio netherlands said so, i heard that the pais vasco full independence is for sooner that you imagine!
i heard it in Radio viscaya ' is it true?
stop your child game so poor in meaning, Morocco throw out the Netherland from one of his natural influence place ' you can't understand this too complicated for you' is for this the Netherlands gouvernement is trying to put pressur in a country stronger than him 'yes morocco'
i can see that you are so desperate that mix issue of security and policy, with moroccan berbers. lol
how could moroccan secret service dismantel the Belgian terrorists cell and morccan terrorists cell in spain without his secret service?
so when you try to be smart don't because you are not!
you are so Naif, but i don't blam your short understanding view of the facts,
how do you think that your secret service avort terror cells in your so beloved countries?
thanks to moroccan and US secret services, thanks to moroccan agent to could break many terror cells in Europe Belliraj in Belgium, in italy in germany, many in Spain!
how could a German blond hair guy infiltrat a terror cel?
in spain and italy it's different as they looks like moroccans!
so another proof that normal people talk just for talking ANA luis portillo and other spaniards, streng i can see just Spanish here! so it's more than clear you are support polisario you are afraid of a Strong Morocco, but you can not avoid it, i fallow the economic evolution in spain, and soon you will became like before 1986, you know poor and misirable, should i remind you that in the 70ties the spanish people come to morocco to work in agricolture, so the history is always changing, todays rich will be the poors of tomorrow, i am confident the jeque mate sera cuando los catalanes sean independientes, veremos si soys tan bocazas como ahora.
TO Zelma,
lol what a fantastic news, who cares about Norwegian insurence and the small other companies whiches operat in ALgeria, and get small amount of money to say what they want, norway is a week country, check the norway policies, and the official gouvernement point of view is a neutral point of view over this artificial issue created by Algeria and Spain.
second the smal companies you are talking about have no weight and the operate simply with norwegian transporters, we are talking about 500.00 krona lol, you have to do better next time, ask Algeria to pay more to the bigger companies,
I have a question :
how it's possible that always action like this comes from Australia south africa or norway?
streng ' those countries have close economical ties, and algeria is sending a lot of deported polisario youth to study in there, and make thier so poor propaganda!
as those countries are so naif and new in the international tactics, thier nationals believe all the liers like you, with you crocodyle crys -(so you cinema is not working any more in Europe or America so you are looking for new victims for you big Lie, you are OVER!
to Mr pedro pinto, you make me sick,
all those poor interventions, I'am moroccan that set Saharawi, rif, sousi, ktami, jebli, arab, hassani,chelh, we represent Morocco the great country which stay in spain for 8 centuries, and you are one of our dessendent, you like it or not!
as you can see in morocco ther is not just berbers!
the Word berber represent 29 million of moroccans : all the ones who are not arabic, so you can add this info to your poor knowledg about your country roots,'Morocco'
your poor propaganda is really limited, as you are short of lies, you are finding new topics' lol'
i think this blog is about the Moroccan sahara, not about me or about the relations between morocco and the netherland, nor spys or about your turned minds ideology,
any way you are like the African TAM-TAM making a lot of noise but empty from the inside, or full of air.
HOw about use Democracy and Allow the sahrawis to decide their future , why impose another Colonisation if they choose otherwise . ALLOW them to dedice without any force or intimidation , if they decide to stay within the boundaries of Morocco , that s fine , but Give me the choice .
to Leyla or what ever,as you are changing your nicknames evey day:
the sahara bolongs to morocco since 1200 ago, so there's no matter of discution her, you should blame the spaniards who, in a weakness of thier short military glory, they supported and created polisario with Algeria, so those people have no right to ask for anything, they are simple crazy separatistss, if you are so concerned by the Right of autodetermination ask Algeria to give the independence to the Kabilian region, and to the Touareg region(south) ask spain to give the independence to the Pais Vasco.
Mrocco when he signed the friendship treaty with the USA in 1777, the americans congratulated the esultan of morocco (to remind you that morocco started from tangiers to the actual Senegal, so you can read the other comments here to see that only Spanish and Algerian secret service who defend those terrorist position.
It's pity to read some of the posts above. They have nothing positive on the issue. The only thing they claim is independence, independence and independence. I should say what else? Do polisario leaders have the competencies to improve the lives of people living in Tindouf camps? Do they have the competencies to deal with a REAL STATE not a VIRTUAL ONE? I should say people retained because most of them are originally from the bodrering countries not Western Sahara. In such case, the referendum doesn't make sense!!!
Besides, the majority of sahraouis are unionists. That's an established facts not a mirage and the unionist sahraouis don't want to be under corrupt, incompetent and none-democrate polisario/algerian leaders.
It's a waste to talk again and again about independence. To move forward to a realistic solution, let's talk about the autonomy and its implementation.
To Jalal nali and the rest of Makhzen's officials, including spies and Morocco's secret services:
We all are in a very mistake: Only you have light and full reason. Western Sahara has belonged to Morocco ever since, before Ala, before Good, before Hassan II, before the United Nations, before every thing.
And not only Western Sahara belonged ever since to Morocco, but also Mauritania, Senegal, Algiers, the Vatican, The United States, Palestine, Japan, Brazil, Timor, Papua, Angola, South Africa, Belgium, Germany, Ossetia and, last but not least, Russia and Iran. Perhaps, also Venezuela and Canada too.
All those who have posted any comment here, all except you and your fellow are liars and crazy people:
¡ HEIL HITLER ! (This man was the most similar to the present governments in Israel and Morocco)
To Ana Garcia and all the algerian/polisarian friends and puppets,
I believe communism and revolution spirit are dead and will never be again. I believe oppression and sequestration are not the best way to manage people neither to support a cause. Polisario leaders as well as Algeria didn't succeed on imposing "SADR" as a sovereign state despite the propaganda machine orchestrated on Internet since more than a decade with the help of Internet lobbyists and naive students from the left and the north of Europe. Now, it's time to end this absurd cold war conflict. It's time to let western saharians and none-western saharians living in Tindouf camps return back to their homeland. Those people are willing better life conditions more than any state claim. The state claim is the mirage of Polisario/algerian leaders to maintain the rewards.
Your arguments and comments are sterile as the conflict itself.
Comparing Morocco to the nazis doesn't make sense because the nazis and the fascists are the polisario leaders who killed many innocent people in the camps because of their opposition to the actual leaders.
Read this :
http://www.corcas.com/eng/SearchResults/MajorEvent/tabid/868/ctl/Details/mid/1814/ItemID/8240/Default.aspx
to ana garcia, the new fashist generation!
you should go for president with you fashist ideology, you and your friends from PP, second I don't have to be a spy of a mekhzen ' as you seems really ignorant about this word meaning' to defend my country.
and you don't have to be sarcastic when you mix the truth with false allegation to mistake the readers. what is your complex?
Mauritania was part of morocco and the half of algeria ' I am nor responsable of your history ignorance' and don't try to invent or manufacture an artificial history of the region to find supporters, it's not me who wrote the histoy, but go and study, and maybe you should spend your energy by supporting the pais vasco to get his claimed independence. ' you know that spain without the industrial pais vasco' will be like somalia in the 70ies.
thanks god we learned well our lecons from the past, all the stupid and low cost propaganda branded by ALgeria is expiring like a food can. ' it's ove the big algerian mascarad is over'
FREE PAIS VASCO!
UNIFIED MOROCCO, long life to the moroccan nation from tangiers to lagouira
to ana garcia, the new fashist generation!
you should go for president with you fashist ideology, you and your friends from PP, second I don't have to be a spy of a mekhzen ' as you seems really ignorant about this word meaning' to defend my country.
and you don't have to be sarcastic when you mix the truth with false allegation to mistake the readers. what is your complex?
Mauritania was part of morocco and the half of algeria ' I am nor responsable of your history ignorance' and don't try to invent or manufacture an artificial history of the region to find supporters, it's not me who wrote the histoy, but go and study, and maybe you should spend your energy by supporting the pais vasco to get his claimed independence. ' you know that spain without the industrial pais vasco' will be like somalia in the 70ies.
thanks god we learned well our lecons from the past, all the stupid and low cost propaganda branded by ALgeria is expiring like a food can. ' it's ove the big algerian mascarad is over'
FREE PAIS VASCO!
UNIFIED MOROCCO, long life to the moroccan nation from tangiers to lagouira 'moroccan mauritanian border'
TO Ana, Morocco was one the of countries whom freed europe from nazis, you should be ashamed comparing them to Moroccans, you should be ashamed to be Spanish simply if we compare the moroccan history to the spanish history, don't try to play the game of who is smarted because you are not, during 33 years we seen people like you, and i think in a flash time this artificial issue we remain in the forgotten history like algerian polisarion,and thier ignornat and manipulable fallowers.
the algerian propaganda has failed.
To Mss Rizzo:
this guy Mr Portillo, said in a web site that you told him to respond a acomment in your blog:
http://groups.msn.com/saharalibrereferendumya/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=1&ID_Message=2206
the issue is that i studied in Malaga for 5 years and I am perfectley fluent in Spanish, please next time if you have somthing to commenters do it your self, this guy said that he knows you personley, so my first comment is somwher truth
Jalal, I have no doubt your Spanish is excellent, but you misread Luis. He said he does NOT know me personally, we have only communicated through internet and both of us are involved in activism and have friends in common who we DO know personally.
As you can see in his message (my Spanish is horrible, but this much I could read), I did not "tell him to respond", but informed him and others who were aware of the paper that it was on my blog and that people were commenting on it, so they might want to check out the blog so that they could discuss the issue with those who were commenting upon the paper.
So, if you can stop with the accusations, it would be fine for all of you to discuss here, there, anywhere at all you wish and in whatever language you believe is best for you to confront your ideas.
thanks
Mary,
You are talking maybe in good faith about Western Sahara issue but many others in this forum had a vey unbalanced view on the issue. I believe as much as someone has a limited knowledge on (any) issue, he can't be the voice of the parties. It's a very complex issue. It started in a cold war context in the 70' and here we are.
Here and in many places on Internet, Morocco is seen as a colonialist, oppressor…and Polisario leaders are seen as angels. The reality on the ground is far from this simplistic point of view. The unionist sahraouis made the choice to belong to the kingdom of Morocco since 1975. the separatist sahraoui made the choice to spread communism and revolution spirit in North Africa with the support of Lybia then Algeria.
I believe nothing compares Western Sahara issue to the Palestine one. Western sahara is facing the unionist sahraouis to the separatists. It's about a common religon, a common culture, a common history, I should say it's about the same families/tribes. Besides, there is no mention to decolonization in any of the UN resolutions on Western Sahara. All of them are mentioning self-determination but according to the UN self-determination do not mean independence. There are many places where the UN was involved as a peacekeeper party and where the term self-determination was pronnounced without any allusion of independence.
Regading the Palestinian issue, it's facing two countries having two histories, two culture, two religions…The parallelism made in this topic doesn't make sense. Palestine authority is recognized by all western countries. Palestine is seating at the UN as an observer.
Polisario Front exists at the UN thanks to Algeria. The activities of the representative of Polisario Front are controlled by the algerian representation at the UN. The representative of Polisario Front is seating in the algerian office.
I am supporting debating in general as a democrate individual but here in that case there would be only biases and manipulation without any real debate to move forward on the western sahara issue to end the sufferings of innocent people in Tindouf camps south Algeria.
AS
[...] he crops up on Flickr, Magharebia, Wikipedia (as Moroccansahraoui, claiming to be from Laayoune), Palestine Think Tank (under his own name alongside another "Moroccan Sahrawi" using similar language and [...]
Mary Rizzo what about the poeple of basque look at ur spain first and free basque
wat about tiziouzou kabylies in east of algeria who asking for independance from 1963
300 000 human ve been killed in algeria by ilegitime government
the front islamique won election in 1992 by 94% where is ur UN and where are u?
wat about kabylies in tiziouzou ?
and wat ……………………………
how much money u get from algeria for this ?
on plus polisario does not represente us we are sahroui ,polisario is just half tribe of ghribat called east rghibat who ve been forced to leave morocco by algeria and its groupe polisario a terroriste
we know europe , USA and UN they don't allow terrorism against themself but allowed against morocco (double standar)
we know cuba and venzuella are terroriste countries they helping this group algerian polizario
there is no justice we sahrouis are moroccans we ready to fight for morocco
ceuta and mililia are moroccan we will take them back soon or later
yep sure he got paid algeria is looking for the atlantic and
spain looking to stay in ceuta and melilia
they are so idiot these poeple
also algeria this ilegitime country who is created by france in 1962 like israel in 1948 by british
every thing is clear and they know that morocco will never leave its sahara but europe and USA love see muslims kill each others
they using this groupe polisario against morocco same time they fighting terrorism against their countries
How much money do I get from Algeria?
What kind of question is that? I don't get a cent, I don't get any information from them at all. They do not know I EXIST, or that this site exists. Does everyone have to have a principalled position based on being paid for it?
Dear Mary,
You shouldn't be surprised that this Moroccan"Sahraoui" accuses everyone, who supports the right to self-determination of the Saharawi people, of being paid by Algeria:
1- as I have demonstrated in my posting of 20 September (and the previous comment – nr. 182 -corroborates) this so-called Sahraoui is a kind of agent provocateur who crops up on many internet discussion groups and hides behind several names;
2- he and his bosses don't understand that one can have a principled position (moreover, as here, based on clear norms of international law) without being paid by someone else;
3- it is in fact a Freudian case of projection: a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one's own motivations onto someone else – it is a well documented fact that corruption in Morocco is endemic (see, for instance, the last Transparency International report) and that Moroccan authorities are infamous for foreign bribery (I remember the statement of a French socialist MP at a conference in Vienna 17 years ago accusing Morocco of that practice; and nothing changed since then)
@Simon RodrÃguez –
i'm shocked by what simon rodriguez has pointed out.i lived a great deal of my life in morocco and i don't totally agree with what has been said in mr.simon's comment.i know morocco is not in the level of western countries but it is a lot better than many arabic,asian or south american countries…what has been said is very biased and is a real epitomy of a weak mind!!the questions that crossed my mind when i read this post are :why you hate morocco that much?why an intelectual would go so low and so wrapped up in a vicious box? would love to fathom that…..